PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

This is just a vent, I'll tell you straight up. Okay, so say knowledge is an internal representation of something from the outside world. (out of the head)

Now remember back to when you were learning something. The first time you were exposed to the material, you couldn't "own" it, right? Like, you felt like you didn't really understand it, or it didn't "sit" right in your head. And obviously, you wouldn't go around telling other people about this new knowledge you sort of obtained, because to you, it's not very credible just yet. Well, you would share the knowledge, but would leave some margin of doubt...

Obviously, this is not the case with many people because why? Making something, an idea, mental image, knowledge, anything abstract, accessible and "ownable" is obviously a big business.. and a lot of the time, it makes me sick in the stomach.

Especially people who appear to know everything and have experienced everything there is to experience... and then it turns out they're just an avid TV watcher, or "have read it on the internet".. too much information, man. I mean, not that I want to do the virtual versus real-life thing, but..

here's what I'm poking at. All this virtual fake experience is fine if the person knows the limitation and of course, doesn't completely "own" the experience as their own. right? It's not just TV and information... all this selling of "ownership" of ideas and thoughts... and mindless people using money to buy that "right" of ownership.. without experiencing, or actually "knowing" about it.. it's all crap, and it makes me sick.

For example.. say you're having a conversation with a random guy about music...
guy: "so you're into this music thing"
you: "yeah, I do some composing on the computer"
guy: "cubase?"
you: "right, and then some VSTis. Actually I just got a new analogue drum emulator"
guy: "did you know that the TR808 was invented by (so and so) and was first used by (so and so) for electronica?"
you: "really, that's kinda cool to know"
guy: "yeah, it has a very fat kick drum that only analogue boxes can produce. Do you have any analgue gear?"
you: "no"
guy: "well, the prophet 5 is a very good one. It's like, fat. really fat. No one's going to be able to emulate that one. I've never seen anything come close"

Now imagine the guy only read about everything, and has no idea about what he's talking about. He's only saying what he's saying because he's "read about it" from a source that's credible to him. Clearly, he's out of line and does not know it because he completely "owns" his knowledge... And that illusion of ownership is blinding him from the obvious truth.. that clearly, an experienced musician "owns" the knowledge far beyond what he can percieve...

Obviously, to him "ownerhip" is defined by knowing about bits of trivia that not too many people would know about. A lot of times, people confuse knowing what other people don't know about, with "owning" that certain idea.. Knowing all the trivial stuff doesn't mean you really "know" about something.. it is, in the end, trivial.

So it's crazy situations like this that really messes things up. Now, the credibility of "real" experience is questioned more than any other time. That's bogus, that's not right.

ps, the example is just made up incase you were wondering if that's what I'm mad about

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2006-05-06 21:53 ]</font>

awww, nobody's perfect....

no really, a pretty common problem. mental virus....bad code....no big deal unless it starts to mess with reality. most people are just trying to make a connection with others, we can't help our lameness....luckily, the world is all about ridiculing other's weaknesses and problems...

imho Ken hits the nail 100%, but far more than regarding a harmless little 2nd-hand-half-knowledge about musical gear...
(a nice and comprehensive example, btw)

about 90% of the IT and consulting business work exactly this way and it's a multi billion $ waste of resources, beyond compare in history - or we may have to re-define industrial and economic values...

it's an easy process - and what's (kind of) frightening is that people in charge are actually helpless, but could never admit their incompentence - unless they wanted to sack themselves from their 'leading' position

imho the same is also reflected in everyday life - the schedule has no more time left for experience based knowledge.
it starts in school and doesn't stop before the telly at home.
it affects political decisions as well as software engineering as the choice of food or a favourite car - a sign of the times.

makes me wonder if it has always been that way and one just gets aware of it with growing age...

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-05-07 03:31 ]</font>

It works both ways... the majority of people in the industry right now think software is the best thing that ever happened to music.

While it opens a lot of doors for a lot of people, to just assume that the analogue stuff has been comprehensively emulated is absolute bullshit IMHO. Because, speaking from personal experience, it has not.

The most important use of knowledge is knowing what will work for any given situation. There are no universal rules - life is too complex for things to work this way, and to think that they do is blind dogmatism.

Real intelligence = not having a caricature view of the world and the things in it.

lol.. gary, I love you attitude towards life. hehe. But yeah, the best may be to stop worrying about these things and maybe just worry about myself.

So, I tried to look at both sides of things.. It's quite true that second hand knowledge, can encourage experimentation, because prior knowledge creates a cushion for anxiety. So, you're more likely to do things that you have some idea about, and most likely, you'll be better at it that having no idea at all. I guess that's a good thing.

Well, it still has a wierd stench to it that's hard to clean out tho. Because knowing too much again may be exactly the reason why these "read it all, watched it all on TV" people are actually surprisingly conservative once given the choice to actually do something.

Pragmatism, a little self-confidence and trying to be understanding with everyone. Then get to love something special in one's life.

Analog/digital, gay/straight etc are just little dualities in life, like food for the mind to chew. Being lame about them from time to time is not *that* bad. Then one starts to worry about the more important stuff. That stuff you don't learn from auto-help magazines.

Anyway, that's how I like to see it, when I don't forget about it! I also get pissed off for unimportant stuff more often that I'd like.

regards

The problem is that people use knowledge to sell themselves. Like every salesman they try to get advantage of other's deficiencies and to "appear" knowledgeable rather than searching the truth. The real purpose is relational, not theoretical. Mostly.

Most of the guys on Z are quite knowledgable people in one form or another & probably most of us search for various sorts of knowledge. I think 'ownership' of knowledge only becomes in issue when money, intellectual property & the likes of NDA's come into the picture, in that order.