No topic
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:09 am
removed by OP
if you want the best from your creamware card,
it's better to use the scope software.
Just use it as outboard, it's not so difficult to use....
Page 1 of 9
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:30 am
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:38 am
The latency could get better if you "refresh" the plugin list in cubase. (you must also have set a different Ulli setting through the cset.ini)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:22 am
yup, xtc mode isnt supported anymore, tough luck. Its still sort of working though, many users are using it sucessfully still.
seeing that this is your first post i take it you havent really asked around here too much for help setting it up either.
and as in every other case in this world; its better to light a light than to curse the darkness.
seeing that this is your first post i take it you havent really asked around here too much for help setting it up either.
and as in every other case in this world; its better to light a light than to curse the darkness.
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:07 am
Answer: (A)On 2006-01-05 05:09, Tuccos wrote:
Either CW is company with just 5 employees or they are unbelievable Ignorant.
In fact I think this answers just about all your questions.
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:14 am
With the XTC workarounds described in other areas of this forum, XTC works great for me.
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:38 am
try to use scope as the basic machine through routing window.
send each channel of your sequencer to different asio channels and control the channels from your creamware mixer.
no real professional environment can live in just one pc sequencer.
you must combine and work with more machines.
i understand you, when you want everything controlled by your cubase or nuendo, it makes you think that everything is controlled by the super program that can do everything. i think it is a wrong point of view.
it is more professional to send flat the channels to scopes mixer and control from scope.(work by using busses)
in that case it is very convenient to use two screens. the one showing the sequencer and the other showing scopes environment.
i suppose your graphic card can drive two screens (check the outs). i work by using two screens and this made me much faster in working and much happier.
it is completelly loosing of time and braking of nerves if you have to find windows of the oppened applications the one under the other with your mouse(my intention is to get a real pro graph. card quadra from matrox or something else...... i realy feel the need of a third monitor allready. and a fourth maybe.(it also a matter of the pixel analysis of the screens that will give you more surface to work on).
_________________
ELVIS LIVES
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2006-01-05 08:42 ]</font>
send each channel of your sequencer to different asio channels and control the channels from your creamware mixer.
no real professional environment can live in just one pc sequencer.
you must combine and work with more machines.
i understand you, when you want everything controlled by your cubase or nuendo, it makes you think that everything is controlled by the super program that can do everything. i think it is a wrong point of view.
it is more professional to send flat the channels to scopes mixer and control from scope.(work by using busses)
in that case it is very convenient to use two screens. the one showing the sequencer and the other showing scopes environment.
i suppose your graphic card can drive two screens (check the outs). i work by using two screens and this made me much faster in working and much happier.
it is completelly loosing of time and braking of nerves if you have to find windows of the oppened applications the one under the other with your mouse(my intention is to get a real pro graph. card quadra from matrox or something else...... i realy feel the need of a third monitor allready. and a fourth maybe.(it also a matter of the pixel analysis of the screens that will give you more surface to work on).
_________________
ELVIS LIVES
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2006-01-05 08:42 ]</font>
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:44 am
Hello there Tuccos 
I'm sorry to hear about your frustration, frustration makes us suffer, we have all gone through it in a way or other with our systems.
About the XTC. Let me give you some history, as this is quite interesting so you can understand what had happend:
Creamware created XTC because many people were asking for a native way (inside the sequencer I mean) of working with the DSP plugins of Pulsar. There was a great exitment at the time, and it seemed to be a great idea, as computers were far away from the posibility of handling, in real time, the best VST plugins of the moment. But just about a year later, things started to change in a fast fashion as computers and its technology started to go up and up and up... in an incredible way. It came out Pentium IV and XP and everytyhing was a great revolution for the audio market. Reaktor 4 was a momentum revolution and this changed people's way of seen at computers and DSP cards.
All those guys so exited about the XTC mode, were no longer so exited, as your own PC could now handle quite a few BIG VST plugins, with little or no problems. Ok, we agree that the difference in sound quality is great between VST and SFP, but the plugins were available anyway.
Then again, before expected, computers grew up in technology and capacity, hard drives, CPU and RAM became much, much cheaper and powerful... The idea of XTC became even weaker... Not the concept itself, because the concept is great an very efficient if you maily work with MIDI, but weaker because it could no longer deal against the posible but expensive VST option.
When XTC came out, it was bezzare to see that about 80% of us, did not truly like the idea, we have always preffered working in the traditional mode, because it gives you much freedom and creativity than XTC. YOu can create some mad connections and of course, use the card at your maximum advantag, and also all the plugins available.
For Creamware, I am quite sure this luck of interest and even some level of rejection to the XTC mode, was a cold surprise... as they expected, all on the contrary, a great welcomed to the new way.
I remember that I switched to XTC for a few days, but did not like, I was somwere else, not in Pulsar anymore. Did not like XTC took out of my hands the CONTROL of everything.
Ok, I cannot think of any company, or even a single person that would continue doing efforts in such huge projects like the XTC, spending thousands and thousands of dollars and hours, to satisfy a couple of guys who found it nice. That would be a suicide economically, and a compaty is all about ECONOMY, no matter how nice the ideas and intentions may be.
Creamware Team is a team of truly inspired people, who loves music and technology sincerely, not a bunck of cold, ugly businessmen, they simply need some breed and butter too, just like you and me.
BUT, and this is a relevant "but", they improved the traditional mode, with the LiveBar, so everybody could feel in a more confortable, convensional envirnment, not the same as XTC, but at least, giving some automation to the most common tasks. And they did it for free, when they could very easily, have asked for 150 Euros, at that time and we would have payed it surely.
This is my understanding of the situation.
Now, for you, I have to say that not using HT is not a tragedy really. Have you messured which is the objective amount of performance difference with and without HT? If you were to mesure it carefully, you'll see that the difference is quite small. I see HT technology more as a marketing stratagy than a real advantage, certainly not as a new generation of procesors... there is still quite a long way to walk for it to work as expected. Do a search and you'll see.
You should take it easy, and get into the SFP normal mode envirnment to take full advantage of the cards. Otherwise, it would be good for you to get to the XTC forum and read all about it, as you will get help from all those who, like you, have chosen to work with XTC mode, so you can solve the most important issues, and enjoy making music.
This writintg has only one intention, and this is: I truly hope you feel better and solve your problems. Give us good news
Nestor
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2006-01-05 08:58 ]</font>
I'm sorry to hear about your frustration, frustration makes us suffer, we have all gone through it in a way or other with our systems. About the XTC. Let me give you some history, as this is quite interesting so you can understand what had happend:
Creamware created XTC because many people were asking for a native way (inside the sequencer I mean) of working with the DSP plugins of Pulsar. There was a great exitment at the time, and it seemed to be a great idea, as computers were far away from the posibility of handling, in real time, the best VST plugins of the moment. But just about a year later, things started to change in a fast fashion as computers and its technology started to go up and up and up... in an incredible way. It came out Pentium IV and XP and everytyhing was a great revolution for the audio market. Reaktor 4 was a momentum revolution and this changed people's way of seen at computers and DSP cards.
All those guys so exited about the XTC mode, were no longer so exited, as your own PC could now handle quite a few BIG VST plugins, with little or no problems. Ok, we agree that the difference in sound quality is great between VST and SFP, but the plugins were available anyway.
Then again, before expected, computers grew up in technology and capacity, hard drives, CPU and RAM became much, much cheaper and powerful... The idea of XTC became even weaker... Not the concept itself, because the concept is great an very efficient if you maily work with MIDI, but weaker because it could no longer deal against the posible but expensive VST option.
When XTC came out, it was bezzare to see that about 80% of us, did not truly like the idea, we have always preffered working in the traditional mode, because it gives you much freedom and creativity than XTC. YOu can create some mad connections and of course, use the card at your maximum advantag, and also all the plugins available.
For Creamware, I am quite sure this luck of interest and even some level of rejection to the XTC mode, was a cold surprise... as they expected, all on the contrary, a great welcomed to the new way.
I remember that I switched to XTC for a few days, but did not like, I was somwere else, not in Pulsar anymore. Did not like XTC took out of my hands the CONTROL of everything.
Ok, I cannot think of any company, or even a single person that would continue doing efforts in such huge projects like the XTC, spending thousands and thousands of dollars and hours, to satisfy a couple of guys who found it nice. That would be a suicide economically, and a compaty is all about ECONOMY, no matter how nice the ideas and intentions may be.
Creamware Team is a team of truly inspired people, who loves music and technology sincerely, not a bunck of cold, ugly businessmen, they simply need some breed and butter too, just like you and me.
BUT, and this is a relevant "but", they improved the traditional mode, with the LiveBar, so everybody could feel in a more confortable, convensional envirnment, not the same as XTC, but at least, giving some automation to the most common tasks. And they did it for free, when they could very easily, have asked for 150 Euros, at that time and we would have payed it surely.
This is my understanding of the situation.
Now, for you, I have to say that not using HT is not a tragedy really. Have you messured which is the objective amount of performance difference with and without HT? If you were to mesure it carefully, you'll see that the difference is quite small. I see HT technology more as a marketing stratagy than a real advantage, certainly not as a new generation of procesors... there is still quite a long way to walk for it to work as expected. Do a search and you'll see.
You should take it easy, and get into the SFP normal mode envirnment to take full advantage of the cards. Otherwise, it would be good for you to get to the XTC forum and read all about it, as you will get help from all those who, like you, have chosen to work with XTC mode, so you can solve the most important issues, and enjoy making music.
This writintg has only one intention, and this is: I truly hope you feel better and solve your problems. Give us good news
Nestor
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2006-01-05 08:58 ]</font>
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:05 am
actually make your pc optimized for audio.
install windows in standard pc mode.
i will give you a few fixes that i had.
1. no midi filtering problem
2. you can work without crackles with more than one machine rewired to your sequencer.
standard pc is more stable.
standard pc disables hyperthreading.
also assign irqs from bios and disable every not needed stuff, usbs printer ports etc...
install windows in standard pc mode.
i will give you a few fixes that i had.
1. no midi filtering problem
2. you can work without crackles with more than one machine rewired to your sequencer.
standard pc is more stable.
standard pc disables hyperthreading.
also assign irqs from bios and disable every not needed stuff, usbs printer ports etc...
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:20 am
ditto to nestor's thread.
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:20 am
HiTucos!I agree totally on your position about the xtc side of things.
It's a real shame that Creamware no longer supports a very good idea.
I for one don't understand the love of the SFP mode wich I find cumbersome to say the least. It's no game for me to be able to cable eveything to everywhere. Except side chaining that will come with the next asio protocol revision, nothing to be gained for me using this mode. Nuendo environment is enough for my needs. One project load and everything is in place, automation posible, no asio config to adapt because I've used more I/O in this song, etc....
Numerous advantages and yet, most oldtimers seems to love the old way better....
It's no surprise that most newcomers are more after a Powercore/Uad-1 host integration. It is today's trend and some of us have another dsp card so we look for the same ease of use.
But seeing the replies, I can hear the same old song replayed again and again...
Sfp is sooo much better blah blah...
To each his own and if some guys have a kick plugging fake audio cords in a dated funky interface, why not.
But please, could you guys just let xtc users explain their wishes/rants without the usual "Come join us and be enlighted" mantra....
It's a real shame that Creamware no longer supports a very good idea.
I for one don't understand the love of the SFP mode wich I find cumbersome to say the least. It's no game for me to be able to cable eveything to everywhere. Except side chaining that will come with the next asio protocol revision, nothing to be gained for me using this mode. Nuendo environment is enough for my needs. One project load and everything is in place, automation posible, no asio config to adapt because I've used more I/O in this song, etc....
Numerous advantages and yet, most oldtimers seems to love the old way better....
It's no surprise that most newcomers are more after a Powercore/Uad-1 host integration. It is today's trend and some of us have another dsp card so we look for the same ease of use.
But seeing the replies, I can hear the same old song replayed again and again...
Sfp is sooo much better blah blah...
To each his own and if some guys have a kick plugging fake audio cords in a dated funky interface, why not.
But please, could you guys just let xtc users explain their wishes/rants without the usual "Come join us and be enlighted" mantra....
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:31 am
because that's not the way development works...On 2006-01-05 05:09, Tuccos wrote:
...Why doesnt Creamware give out the Source codes for the Drivers so some good programmers out there could work on them. ...
the source code itself is the least important part of the process.
To be able to deal with it, you need the design concept of the system, it's fundamental specs and how things are supposed to move in and out.
over the years they've invested a few million Euros in this thing - if I were in charge I'd rather burn it than give public lessons
(but that's just me...)
cheers, tom
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:51 am
I always thought XTC was a dumb idea and I'm glad they've dropped it. The whole point of getting Scope is to have the free-routing window and the zero-latency, hardware-like operation. There's none of that in XTC; it's just another set of latency-introducing plugins without the snappy convenience of software. I'd prefer them developing on the stuff that's really important than on stuff that isn't. CW always had a priority problem; they always were busy developing too many products at once without getting the first ones mature first. Thankfully they streamlined themselves with SFP 3.1, so hopefully by the time they start developing Scope again (after the ASB boxes bring in some cash) they'll know exactly what to work on.
Shayne
Shayne
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:32 am
My system seems to work OK with HT enabled. If I could turn it off just for scope I would but there's no way to set and forget such a feature (eg affinity) and I need HT for other apps (2D and 3D graphics)
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:14 pm
on mac XTC never was supported by CWA...it's all relative
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:14 am
ED
Participation from what seems like no more than industrial espionage .... removed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-02-06 11:50 ]</font>
Participation from what seems like no more than industrial espionage .... removed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-02-06 11:50 ]</font>
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:16 am
Go and have a coffee or something and come back and read my post again stardust 
(I wasn't calling for rants, just being sarcastic old me)
(I wasn't calling for rants, just being sarcastic old me)
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:04 am
No you were wrong.
I was being sarcastic, not ironic.
In English the two words have slightly different meanings.
I am glad you don't understand that.
I was being sarcastic, not ironic.
In English the two words have slightly different meanings.
I am glad you don't understand that.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:49 am
I knew you'd bite the lureOn 2006-01-06 02:14, Shroomz wrote:That's the spirit Tom. I'm affraid I'd expect you to say something just like this. Share no information tell nobody your secrets.On 2006-01-05 09:31, astroman wrote:
over the years they've invested a few million Euros in this thing - if I were in charge I'd rather burn it than give public lessons
(but that's just me...)
...We're bust, but we've burned our information & secrets so that nobody else can continue or improve upon our work (DSP audio system in this case) ...
yet you may have overlooked that what makes your Scope box is only one aspect of DSP audio
if home/semipro DAW turns out to become a non-profit business (let alone bitching customers who all seem experts in 'driver' writing how-to), there's still the OEM market and custom solutions.
there might be a cat in the bag...
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-01-06 04:52 ]</font>
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:38 am
ED
Participation from what seems like no more than industrial espionage .... removed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-02-06 11:51 ]</font>
Participation from what seems like no more than industrial espionage .... removed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-02-06 11:51 ]</font>