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<a name="planetz-file"></a><a href="http://www.planetz.com/Pulsar/files/mus ... .mp3"><img src="/forums/images/listen_icon.gif" border="0" alt=" Song"> Song</a><BR> <a name="planetz-tag"></a>Genre: Trance<BR> <a name="planetz-tag"></a>Uses: Pulsar Effects,Pulsar Mixers<BR> Ken<BR> _____________________________________<BR><BR> many of you may know that epic trance isn't exactly my thing.. well, actually I "studied" trance to create software that tries to programatically generate simple trance tunes, and most of the trance music I listened to as samples, ended up being epic trance. The funny thing is, after I listened to like 500 of these pieces I kind of "learned" it.

Anyway, this is a demo I'm working on right now. It's basically finished, just had a glitch during the bounce that needs to get fixed. It'll feel like I'm rushing the structure of the piece, because I'm tring to fit it under 5:00, and that can be hard if I took the time to really develop things.

Strangely, all synths are native. Most of them are the a1 synth that comes with cubase, mda's jx10 free synth for the main stabb sound (spent a while patching it), microtonic for drums.

It might be cool to just replace some of the synths with creamware ones just for fun.

This is somewhere between trance and the music for the promotional DVD that came with my Kenmore washing machine.

a washing machine eh? Dunno what to say.. hehe

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2005-09-12 23:40 ]</font>

Kenmore...

hey ken, i liked the pro sound outta this, i mean it pulses real hard and hits the 0 db level regularly. should really work on a dance floor


now this:

On 2005-09-12 22:50, braincell wrote:
This is somewhere between trance and the music for the promotional DVD that came with my Kenmore washing machine.

you stupid fuck.

if you don't like it just don't post asshole. i mean what good does your brilliant comment serves up? do you think it is intended to help ken get better at the work he does? we might be here to hear negative critics backed up with REASONS on how it could get better, otherwise this is negative vibes at planetz.. just what are you trying to do? scare away a talented poster here?

your nick name might start with brain but this calls for a lot of other suffixes than cell to it

Kensuguro and I are friends.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2005-09-13 17:12 ]</font>

all is well, don't worry. I think braincell meant it as a funny statement.. I mean, there's some truth in his statement in that, you don't hear all out trance material much other than in euro dance charts and occasionally in a cheesy add anyway. So, don't worry about it legros, but thanks for caring. No need for the hostility in both parties.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2005-09-13 16:23 ]</font>

The sound of this is just TOO MUCH! Your japanese background transpires an awful lot in here.

One comment comes to mind. When I play my techno stuff to my wife's son(22) he says my stuff is "too orchestrated". I think he would say the same thing about this piece.

I would call this Dance rather than Trance. Besides it doesn't hypnotise enough to be called Trance, eh?

Such good work though

what do you mean by "TOO MUCH"? Also, what aspects made you think of my Japanese background? Just curious.

and about the "orchestrated" feel, yeah, I think I get what you mean. I think both in terms of structure and the way each of the instruments are used.. My jab at the topic is that in many other dance tunes, everything is extremely simplified and also blown a little out of proportion so as to make things easier to understand. Works either way I think.

One thing this piece lacks, is the 16 step feel. I mean, it's there partially, but since I'm playing all the parts and doing all sorts of minor variances in the patterns, there's a sense of organic feel to the phrases I think. Not something I put up front, but a little detail that creates a sort of "air" around the piece I guess.

you guys ever saw at least a video of a real todays dance/trance party??
say with dj Tiesto, to name one?
Nice stuff sometimes, tho not my first pref.

I concider ken's track(s) as a study for 'format' or style stuff and for sound studying, as it's way way too far from the real stuff
Great sound and parts Ken, but I guess you agree you're not after the real stuff price
No offend eighter way

ya, Tiesto's one of the guys I remember, and studied closely. But the stuff was back around 2001 or 02, and the other material was a bunch of hi energy type tracks. (which is the general direction this piece travels in) I guess much has changed since then..

Either way, I think this piece is a nice concatenation of just a bunch of stuff I listened to during research. I supposed if it sounds cool even with regard to what it was based on, then the goal has been reached. It's both ways.. You can say it's out of style, or just "different"..

It's hard, this juggling of styles. I mean, I guess anyone can sit down and learn a specific style in a couple of months.. maybe an year. Many styles don't get more complicated than that I think. But then, once you learn all the dos and dont's of a specific style, given that many of these rules are pretty unforgiving (in musical content and timbre), then the end result is that slowly you loose head room for creative play. So the give and take is that the more "authentic" the sound becomes, the more bland it gets, and disappears into everything else that sounds "right" for that specific style.

Of course, it's no excuse if an approach is just totally off, or out of style. I wouldn't be offended if this tune would make a trance insider's neck itch, or make him twitch.. just like if someone wrote a hip hop tune using Vanilla Ice as reference and claimed he did his research. I sure hope it's not in that vein, but I do admit my 3 year old research is rather old. By the way, what's the bottom line hubird? It's cool for what it is? Or wouldn't work at all as a dance/trance piece? (old sounding perhaps?)

That said, I do hope the internal workings and balancing within the piece is done well enought that you don't have to seek outside reference to judge whether the piece works or not. I think if a piece is put together well enough, it'll end up where it should. In an ideal world where people don't need stylistic attention "hooks" though.. hehe. It's always a mystery. When can we start seeing through the symbolism, semantics, and the iconography that is used to simplify the world, and learn to view what these constructs actually represent? This again, is a give and take situation.. We still need symbols and icons to comprehend the world, or else we'll be bombarded with too much detail.

guess I got off on the philosophical side of bed.. hehe. I really do think of these things.. partially why I'm obsessed with styles and the switching of styles, blending, etc.. It's kind of like anthropology..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2005-09-13 23:18 ]</font>

Kensuguro,

I think what Paul meant about your Japanese background is a complex issue. Your culture goes back thousands of years and then suddenly changed and became somehow westernized but as it became westernized things got lost in the translation and sometimes seems wacky to us. We have a word "kitsch". If you look it up in the dictionary, you will not get a good definition yet we know what it means. Asians don't get the kitsch concept. Putting plastic pink flamingos on your lawn is very kitsch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch

Interesting thoughts Ken
It's true, without experimenting a style is doomed to die even.
At the same time we need icons to not get lost in details...I see

To my very personnal opinion, this super piece of music wouldn't work on a serious party.
Not because of it 'sounding too old', which isn't necessarily bad, but because -man this is difficult to name- it's everything, the overall hifi sound, the harmonic content, the musicion's playing character, the odd disko-funk sauce, the everything-is-right-and-under-controll picture, the lack of magic, the bombastic (-instead-of-cool) powerplay, etc.

This sounds too negative Ken, but I have to use words (icons) to get a finger on it.
It's like Paul says, it's way too much, in every aspect, tho single elements definitely commands full respect

From a dj standpoint, a dj likes grooves to move, not complete compositions which nail him down as a radiostyle dj.
We musicions think to much as musicions, surprise!

These comments aren't bad at all, unless you hope it is the perfect trance song
In fact it's quite normal what happens here, and it's even good, as it prooves one can't copy a 'format' that easy - viva the understream

You live in a real world, with real socialisations. You have to be part of a certain world to get the subtle discerning feeling for the details and overall character.
After all, it's culture...human beings devellopped during thausends of centuries a fine structured feeling for the mega subtle differences in cultural communication, you can't controll that on command

Exactly for this reason I work together with (local) dj's active in the scene.
I let them decide about everything concerning two things: 'styling' and arrangement (the flow).
These are the things he's supposed to be good in, at least compared to me.

I can tell you, it's frustrating when such guy comes to my studio and starts deleting great sounds or effects that I prepared...
I never really do understand the reasons, but if I ask him, the little contemptuous smile or frown on his face tells me enough 'Too eighties man', or, 'used already somewhere', etc., argh!

Happily, at the same time, new elements always sneak in, so I'm not afraid to be stucked by the ultimate average

It's just a matter of not to apply overdosis, as 'new' requires 'old' to get recognized.
If your heart isn't really into the (a) style, you just see the format, and you will easily loose the feeling for the connexion.

For the rest, you must be lucky with that, right time right place thingie.

So, the bottom line as you say? if you'd like to create a well acceptable trance song, start visiting deep night parties and got lost together with everyone else, in the meanwhile start contacting young dj's for styling contributions...they'll be exited working in your studio
Or see this track as a usefull and fun making study, with not too much claims.
Not too bad at all

braincell - well, some asians are known to have no taste at all, and be kistch by mistake.. or a large group actually likes kistch things. But, I think I see what you're poking at.

hubird, very interesting things you have said.

Not because of it 'sounding too old', which isn't necessarily bad, but because -man this is difficult to name- it's everything, the overall hifi sound, the harmonic content, the musicion's playing character, the odd disko-funk sauce, the everything-is-right-and-under-controll picture, the lack of magic, the bombastic (-instead-of-cool) powerplay, etc.

I think I can relate alot to what you say about "everything-is-right-and-under-controll". There's always a sort "lab" quality to the stuff I make, some times to a point where I even realize it. It's most definitely because some of the stuff I do are almost purely rule based for work speed and efficiency..

And then comes the whole "the piece being too much a piece" business.. This is probably related in some way, to how tango didn't really turn out as "real" in the musical Carmen.. Perhaps I've given things a butter 'n cheese twist, take things that I thought was usable, and then disposing of others.

Bottom line? I gotta get a little whacky I think. Do spontaneous things, get a little crazy, ya know?

thanks Ken for taking my words as 'content'
btw, I'm convinced that you WAS spontanious making this track...
Enthousiasm, commitment and fun (along skillness) splash from it
If I'm not wrong, it's just not your 'home thing', which led me to my conclusion
cheers.

Rather like that, Ken. Not sure if I'd call it techno (but hey, I don't know/do genres!) Not 100% to my taste, but very well produced, as ever.

Royston

Kensuguro,

I think the minimal edgy and low-fi trend in clubs is a backlash against over produced radio music.

Clubs typically have bad acoustical properties which is magnified when you crank the volume. If it's not minimal, everything turns to mud.

Ken, What I meant by "too much" is the tune is really REALLY good!(some of us french canadians use "too much" in that sense)

As to the "japanese" comment, I was referring to sonic similarities with Yasuaki Shimizu(to my ears anyways). You have this certain way with reverb that I am quite jealous of(this might explain the japanese influence bit more).

I have to say that this tune sounds too much like a soundtrack to find its way to a dance floor. Doesn't mean I don't like it though.

_________________
Are we listening?..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2005-09-14 19:01 ]</font>

Clubs typically have bad acoustical properties which is magnified when you crank the volume. If it's not minimal, everything turns to mud.

Makes perfect sense.

You have this certain way with reverb that I am quite jealous of(this might explain the japanese influence bit more).

I'm very happy to hear that. I'm totally unaware of what I do with reverb, other than that I've tuned it to my general likings, and leave it that way for most of the time. It's probably one of those second nature things.. hehe.

This is a really well produced track. It's the sort of track that you might be lucky enough for a game dev' to take a liking to & pay you for more of the same.

On the other hand, i'm sorry to say that i don't like it. It's just not my taste at all.
If i were to be a little brutal, i'd say it sounds like the sort of background wallpaper our minds are semi-forced to listen to while standing in a supermarket queue or being queued on the telephone by a corporate answer machine which plays annoying music.

No offence meant, just an honest opinion

I think you can make much deeper music with those production skills of yours