PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hi.

Curently I use RME Cards. I have HDSP9652 and Multiface. I also have Digital Mixer Panasonic Ramsa WR-DA7 which I'm planing to sell while I can get any $ for it and I don'r use it for nothing more than routing and talkback.

So the plan is:.
Sell A7
Buy : Mackie Big Knob, 2x Presonus DigimaxLT Mic pre/DA,Mackie Control, Scope Project Plus

That should replace and upgrade my current setup with DA7.But before I switch from RME to Creamware I would like to be sure.

I have two setups in my mind:
1. To keep RME cards and to build a dedicated computer (with Scope) to replace my digital mixer. I could use dual monitoring and use same computer for real-time audio measurement
(FFT spectrum analyzer, Osciloscope, Peak, RMS meters...) and all same tools for reference track. So It's like 2x measurement tools.
So, Scope DSP as digital Mixer
Computer CPU for measurement tools. (Realtime input monitoring)

2. I could switch RME HDSP9652 for Scope Project Plus and use Main workstation computer (DAW - Samplitude) for Scope digtal mixer running in background also.

What you think it's best option?
To have dedicated machine for Scope mixer and
measurement tools or to have Scope DSP Mixer on my DAW machine. Then I would need 3 monitors. 2 for DAW and 1 for Scope mixer view.

Hm complicated

1. I use Samplitude?
Are there any problems with Creaware and Samplitude in ASIO mode?

2. I have ASUS motherboards with VIA chipset?
Are there any problems with VIA?

Thank you
I'm looking forward for your answers.

Best Regards,
Dali

The VIA chipset could be a problem - many problems reported here.

On 2005-01-21 22:37, wayne wrote:
The VIA chipset could be a problem - many problems reported here.

true, but newer via chip boards have been reported to work ok

what model is your board? and could it be used as the sequencer/vst (i) machine of your setup (if i understand u correctly u plan to use 2 machines)


oh and i havent noticed any samplitude/scope problems reported

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: piddi on 2005-01-22 00:48 ]</font>

Personnaly, i would go for the Scope Professional with the 24 adat io plate directly.

Keep the RME for analog IO routing, on a second el chepo PC. A second PC because i think RME + Scope would have to fight for PCI bandwidth if they are both on the same PC.

I would also dump Mackie control, even if it's pretty cool, and this for one reason :
If you're used to have tactile control for mixing, you'll miss a control surface to control Scope mixer. And Mackie control can't be programmed easily to control anything else than software that support's Mackie protocol.

Here's an actual setup used by our band :

-The fireface in standalone for routing + it provide very nice preamps with ADAT IOs

-Scope with it's asio driver and mixer/effects/synths to host the sequencer (Samplitude?)

-SAC 2K, which can be used to control Scope mixers AND the sequencers (SAC2K support Mackie, Logic, Houston, and some others, like Reason and Scope) and even software from a second PC if needed. And, more important, it's alot more sexy than Mackie Control

To finish my comment, i'll say that you'll be amazed by Scope sounds, the richness and qualities of the tools available 'under the hood' for producing,mixing&mastering.

My 2 cents

Hi.
Thank you all for your ansrwes!

I never ment to use Scope and RME card in same computer.I know Scope DSP is zero native CPU load and in theory I could use it on DAW machine and replace RME, but "all in one" ideas gives me a bad feeling somehow

In this setup I would have:
1 computer, Samplitude
Scope Mixer(replacing my hardware DA7)

Pros:
1. Only one computer(this might be cons)
Cons:
2. I need dual monitoring for my DAW.
For Scope mixer Viev I would need tripple monitoring. Is there any native CPU load when connecting aditional monitors or it's all graphic card load? I guess not.
3. RME is samplitude sugested card
4. I would still need another computer for dual (reference track) realtime measuring tools.

So I guess it's better fo leave DAW alone with it's RME and and tested it's prooven to work good, and build a dedicated machine with Scope Mixer to replace my hardware DA7 and to use Scope's computer input monitoring (native CPU) for dual measurement tools.

That way I keep my DAW untoched and replace my old digital mixer with powerful scope mixer plus gain masurement tools. I was thinking about tripple monitoring Middle 17" LCD for mixer View, Left and Right LCD for measurement Tools.

What do you think?

Regarding Controller.
I was planing to buy Mackie for:

LCD Screens
Dial wheel (I planed to use faders for Scope and Dial Wheel for (midi thru) for my DAW(driving transport cursor)

One other think. It would be nice If I could access all mixer function with midi controller (without a mouse or keaboard), like I did in my digital Mixer, but, due to SFP wireing I guess that's not an option and there will always be need for mouse.

It would be nice if controller would have meterbridge though.

Regarding VIA chipset:
I did installed about 10 Luna's on VIA chipset exclusively for home user friends and NO ONE ever had any problems! But I'm a little more than a home user therfore I had to ask.

Thank you!!!

Best Regards,
Dali

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kdiamond on 2005-01-22 06:12 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kdiamond on 2005-01-22 06:13 ]</font>

the VIA isn't a problem just by it's presence - it strikes when PCI bandwidth for temporary storage in the computer's main memory is required.

That usually applies 'only' to reverbs and heavy delays, and doesn't affect synths or routing or the wave drivers.

Since devices like spaceF's Echo3 delay and the STW reverbs by Warp69 are considered an absolute 'must have' for any 'professional' user, it's better to think ahead
Specially the STW stuff drives the PCI bus to it's limits and definetely fails with VIA.
And you certainly don't want to miss it - a reverb of THAT quality has never been THAT affordable...

aside from that I find your overall concept of the system well thought out - it should be a pleasure to work with.
I'd rather like to suggest a touch sensitive TFT display for the mixer control - but then - first someone has to come and TACK those bloody GUI items to their place on the surface...

cheers, tom

Heh, It's me again.
This creamware setup really turned me on

Ok, I'll probably choose safest way. Leave DAW untouched with it's RME HDSP9265, since it's Samplitude suggested sound card.

Let's focus on dedicated Scope PC to replace my hardware digital mixer. I guess for using Scope mixer ONLY I don't need many Shark DSP processors. I guess Home+I/O plate would be enough but the price of Scope Home + I/O plate is same as Project Plus and no AES/EBU and no balanced analog outs. That's why I have decided for Project Plus.
I don't plan to use any plugins, samplers, synths. All I want is good flexible midi controlled mixer (for routing ONLY), delay (in samples) for phase cancelation adjustments. That's all.

I need:
2x ADAT In/Out (16ch I/O)
1x AES/EBU (stereo I/O)
1x S/PDIF (stereo I/O)
1x MIDI

Those are Scope Project Plus specifications, but I can not see enough connectors from Scope Project Plus soundcard picture.
See my "Scope specification confusion" topic.

Thank you
Best Regards,
Dali

I don't plan to use any plugins, samplers, synths. All I want is good flexible midi controlled mixer (for routing ONLY), delay (in samples) for phase cancelation adjustments. That's all.

I'll be curious to know after you've heard some stuff if you will stick on this idea...I bet not!

Curenlty I'm after my old digital mixer replacement + I want to have dual measuring tools.For My Mix/Mastering and For Reference Mix/Master in realtime to compare. I think that enough burden/load for one machine.

I plan to buy VB-Audio measurement plugins.
And 2xFFT Analyzer,2xPeakmeter,2xRMSmeter, 2x Avarage level meter, 2x osciloscope,2x direction meter, 2x corelation meter...) does take some CPU power and I don't want that power to be compensated from my DAW(Samplitude).

Ofcourse later...
If I find Scope DSP superior to UAD, Powercore then I guess It's better to buy another Creamware Card to replace RME DAW soundcard and use it's power as XTC within DAW, right, and be able to do mixdowns instead of recording back loped Master out.

And leave Scope Mixer + measurement machine to do what it's supposed to. Nothing more, noting less. I know there are other ways, but I need to have stable system. More factors, more problems.

Ofcourse, maybe I'm wrong. That's why I'm asking those questions.

Hm, Thinking...

Thx for your replys!
You're great

Br,
Dali

If I had to do it all again, or more to the point, could afford to do it all some more, I'd buy a small separate machine for my Scope with a Micro-ATX (only 3-4 PCI slots) nForce based Athlon 64 board or whatever chipsets the latest Intel high-bandwidth boards are based on so it would fit in one of the shallower rack briefcases.

Then I'd use that machine to do CWA, only CWA and nothing but the CWA and then buy an RME Cardbus or Firewire adaptor for my laptop.

The main reason for this is that Once you get a taste for the sound of the CW stuff (I've graduated from 9DSPs to 21) you'll want to just have everything rocking in realtime. If you're doing this all on one PC, even if it's a REALLY sweet PC, there will come a point where you want to load those last 3 stereo ASIO Busses so you can have BFD mixed by their microphones outs (or whatever you might use at the studio), and then the SFP project will start giving you errors.

"Maximum PCI Bandwidth reached."

Then you'll tinker a bit, and try it again. It will look like its taken until you realize you have to re-initialize the ASIO driver in Cubase. Down it goes again.

The reason why this happens is because even though things on the CWA cards are loading on the DSPs, the cards have no local memory, so anything that requires a memory buffer (like reverbs, delays, and ASIO busses), they'll have to open up a dedicated percentage of the PCI bus (which leads them to your RAM, and consequently, to the CPU).

The more ASIO channels you are running into the CWA mixers (assuming the CWA card is doing all your local ASIO work), the less demanding DSP-based plugs you'll be able to load before erroring out, regardless of how much DSP room you have left. The VIA chips haven't historically had a lot of PCI bandwidth breathing room, hence people's hesitation on the matter.

So technically, if you have an old junker machine which has a suitable motherboard, you could use THAT as the host for your CWA cards (if the RME is doing your ADC, then you'll probably want the ADAT only CWA card) and have the CWA doing nothing but receiving ASIO channels over ADAT (after the # crunching has already been done on the sequencing machine). Then you can fill up your DSPs with whatever you want; i.e. synths, effects busses, etc.

That will also allow you to integrate other equipment into directly into your CWA rig (like you would with any hardware mixer) without exposing it to the added latency of the ASIO rig, though RME is one of the best when it comes to latency.

What's more, using a plug like FXTeleport, or if you're lined with gold and using Steinberg technology, using another copy of SX/Nuendo and link the two machines' CPUs together in an ASIO cluster. That way you can still gain some extra CPU power for VSTs and the like on the sequencing machine without really interfering with the work the CWA cards are doing.

Sorry if that was a little long winded. I can get carried away some times.

Hope that helps,
Sam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dehuszar on 2005-01-22 13:22 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dehuszar on 2005-01-22 13:27 ]</font>

it depends on what you're doing. the scope card works GREAT with sam and it could easily handle your mixer duties AND replace the rme. having another computer will certainly add more horsepower, but will also add to the complexity of your setup.

Yes, exactly.

I don't like overloaded systems. More thinks, more bugs, more stress, less work done!

I guess if I use a dedicated machine to replace my mixer + adds dual measuring tools is enough. Actually I get very much for the money! Think about how much would similar hardware costs? If there is one?

And using 2x monitoring tools (16 plugins) on input for realtime monitoring is not peace of cake, therfore I think if Scope DSP handles Mixer and Native CPU Handle Input Monitoring, system works without overload.

Br,
Dali

Here's what I'll do.

I already have two computer in my studio. I use FXTeleport all the time. I could not live without it! I load all convolution reverbs (Voxengo Pristine Space) to other PC.

I will buy 3rd computer to replace my mixer + dual measurement tool.

1. Scope mixer should have zero CPU load, cause it's powerd by Shark DSP's, right?
2. Measurement tools plugins will have some CPU load
3. Rest of CPU's power I could use with FXTeleport.

I buy dedicated computer + Scope Project+ and get:

1. Digital Mixer replacement
2. Most advanced DUAL measuring tools (for my mix and reference mix)
3. CPU power for FXTeleport

Yeah!!!

Thank you all for your help!!
You rock!

Best Regards,
Dali


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kdiamond on 2005-01-22 15:10 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kdiamond on 2005-01-22 15:12 ]</font>