Do you think Masterverb Pro is any good?

sonicstrav · Post by **sonicstrav** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:15 pm

I got this with the Scope Professional but i'm not convinced ..... Perhaps I should get the plate reverb. Or is it really good ?

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:05 pm

Masterverb Pro is very good, no doubt

STW verbs are perhaps better, I don't know, Tom mentioned you have more edit possibilities, and you can get weird stuff out of it.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:07 pm

any reverb on itself is pretty useless - it depends on what you send through it...

and keep the idea of the mix in mind, finally noone will admire the reverb

Masterverb is very resource effective and will do it's job just fine, but of course there's no way to refuse the STW Plate or Ambient combos (unless starving of yourself or your relatives is to be expected...)
$k gear usability for a 10th of the price, get them while supplies last...

btw I'd really like to have the verb/delay of the old Kawai K4 (unfortunately not available as a separate unit, at least not to my knowledge).
It's so charming blurry shattering - but I assume that THIS is something even Warp cannot do...

cheers, Tom

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:15 pm

yeah, some of the modulations can do completely wiered or funky things, specially with rythm material.

but those reverbs can also be almost un-noticable soundwise - the original character of the source signal is kept to a degree that's stunning.
well, maybe not exactly - they eat PCI and DSP resources for breakfast, no wonder it sounds THAT good.

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-01-04 17:16 ]

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:41 pm

Do you think Masterverb Pro is any good?

My answer is quite simple to your simple question: no.

Even if better than the Masterverb, the Masterverb Pro is a poor reverb.
I've sold mine a long time ago.

The way to go is STW A-100, I-100 & P-100 (and the next coming STW Hall reverb), period. Even if they are DSP hungry and PCI hungry. This said sound quality wise.

[ This Message was edited by: Grok on 2005-01-04 17:44 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:54 pm

yes, it's a very nice reverb. no one reverb is best for everything... the p100/a100/etc. series ARE incredible.....

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:09 pm

The P-100 A-100 etc. stuff is absolutely stunning, but believe me Masterverb Pro is an excellent reverb, expecially if compared with a lot of native stuff (I won't even mention too much the ridiculous Cubase reverbs), and considering that those stw, as said always are very resource expensive, you'll be quita happy to have something pretty good but light enough to add.

Cw verbs are better than most people think, they seem regulated to a level that appears as very low and you tend to overuse them, and that's a mistake. They are very musical and natural, hence the impression that are too low, but if you remove them from the sound you can notice how deep and clever are they working.

Obviously the P-100, A-100 etc. are really a must have, I can say they are the best verbs I've heard, even compared to some hw, top notch.

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:46 pm

On 2005-01-04 16:15, strav100 wrote:
I got this with the Scope Professional but i'm not convinced ..... Perhaps I should get the plate reverb. Or is it really good ?

Your ears have already done a good job for you with the Masterverb Pro.
Now go and check the P-100 and the A-100 & I-100 demos, and your ears will instantaneously judge what the real stuff is. Trust them.
Accurately modeled on some Lexicon PCM-91 algorythms, that's real stuff.

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:05 pm

True words, Alfonso

siberiansun · Post by **siberiansun** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:15 pm

gotta agree with alfonso, masterverb (never tried pro) IS a quality reverb!

there are, as we all know, MILLIONS of dsp/native reverbs out there and one should know that only few are frequently mentioned (i.m.h.experience):

CWA masterverb, TC classic verb, UAD EMT 140 plate, Voxengo pristine space (or SIR, or what have you..) Waves trueverb.
now if you bring out yer calculator, you'll notice that those verbs range from $0 - $much more.

it's all a matter of taste, convenience and economy.
anyway, i've never felt "left behind" using the masterverb! au contraire, i'm sitting on a well kept secret

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:43 pm

Hi Siberiansun,

If you like the Masterverb, then you could try the Masterverb Pro, wich is much better sound wise than the simple Masterverb...

But there's still no possible comparison with the STW P-100 & A-100 & I-100... Wich stand at the highest standards and are the reverbs I waited for a so long time for the Scope Platform. With them, our cards finally become true high-end reverbs.

As for the convolution reverbs (Voxengo's Pristine Space, SIR, Waves IR1), they are good to accurately model true real acoustic spaces (tunnels, greek theatres or whatever). For this task, they are the best. But they are not good to model hardware reverbs that use LFOs, like the Lexicon ones, these artistic LFO tricks can't be modeled with linear convolution.

[ This Message was edited by: Grok on 2005-01-04 21:46 ]

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:22 pm

What constitutes a good reverb, exactly? Say, the ability to sound like actual reverberation instead of distorting or coloring the signal? On that particular scale, I feel it is better than the reverbs Cubase includes. It's better than the reverbs included in a Behringer digital mixing board. It's not quite as good as the stock reverb for the UAD card. And of course ... it's nowhere near as good as STW reverbs. Sometimes you want that coloration and distortion, but I don't personally find that the Masterverb or even the Pro improve the sound very much.

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:39 pm

Personally I find the Masterverb "Classic", 'normal' and "Pro" versions all quite useful, depending on the task at hand. Note however that I even find the stock Logic reverb plugins useful on occasion for specific mixing goals. At one point a few years ago I thought all 'low end' reverbs to be crap but hindsight (and some discussion with RedMuze) now proves that I was REALLY overusing verb and the artifacts that I was bothered by were the result of an inability to properly tune the reverb's controls and process (generally with eq) the verb's send return. Experience has also taught me that many people who insist on using many instances of convolution verb are using the 'better' algorithm to compensate for a lack of mixing knowledge when it comes to reverb...

I haven't bought the new STW verbs yet but the demos definately sounded excellent. I would think these would be more for 'creative' uses than adding a touch of subtle ambience or thickening to a sound though...especially given their dsp load.

[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2005-01-04 23:40 ]

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:15 am

has also taught me that many people who insist on using many instances of convolution verb are using the 'better' algorithm to compensate for a lack of mixing knowledge when it comes to reverb...

Could you post some links to some reading material on proper use of reverb in mixes?

Post by **hubird** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:35 am

good visions Valis also

Liquid, this is mainly about live recording and reverberation, however it's very good for understanding what's going on between direct and indirect (reverbed) sound:
http://www.digido.com/portal/pmodule_id ... age_id=32/
cheers

sonicstrav · Post by **sonicstrav** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:36 am

I have ordered the P-100 reverb. I think the Masterverb Pro is better than most native reverbs but is still only OK - I agree it is probably best use as an efficent reverb to add just a slight touch. For more dense or extreme effects it is useless and has an nasty colour to the sound. This is where the plate verb comes in - it sound fantastic pushed to the extremes.

dubcotics · Post by **dubcotics** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:47 am

hi,
hi fellas,

just got muy serial key for the stw verbs. I've installed all the devices and presets at their respective locations, that is where they are meant to be. Closed Scope, started it again. When launching the devices I'm prompted with the activation key request window, I did the appropriate thing but this prompts a message saying " invalid key" etc..

I did paste all the codes alright, I've even contacted Craig at sonictimeworks but there's no way out that's why I've come here to seek help, Craig was cool btw as he promptly fed me back." ceci-dit" I count on you fellas for some help as we all have the same equipment, cheers and thanks in advance.

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:04 am

Personally, I prefer to use a reverb which simply doesn't have so many parameters.

I don't really want (or need) to accurately emulate a room 16m * 20m with a concrete floor, carpet on the ceiling, wooden walls with four pillars distributed evenly around the room, with the sound source in the far left corner and the receiver 10m away, pointed at an angle of 140 degrees from the direct line to the sound source.

I want a "warm room, about that big" or "a hall"

More professional engineers undoubtedly need greater flexibility and realism than myself, but I never use the MasterverbPro or any of the STW devices mainly due to the above reasons.

Also, I've plumped for a DX (non-SFP) reverb as I find that I have more resources available to me when not using a Scope-based reverb.

YYMV, though...in the right hands (probably not mine), most reverbs can be used to good effect.

Royston

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:53 am

Liquid Len most of what I've learned came from both experience with mixing (doing) and simply reading up on what reverb 'is' and how software and hardware attempts to mimic it with their specific implementations. Sound on Sound has some great stuff in their http://sospubs.co.uk archives. I also tend to give out this link to people learning:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Reverb/

Also someone (forget who) on these forums mentioned that they found the reverb trails of the Masterverb Pro cluttered compared to the 'normal' Masterverb (presumably due to the room modelling). My music usually isn't minimal enough to reveal detail that subtle but that info might be important to some. I also rarely find myself using the Pro version simply because the 'normal' Masterverb and even the 'classic' give adequate results and consume less dsp...

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:43 pm

On 2005-01-05 05:04, Counterparts wrote:
Personally, I prefer to use a reverb which simply doesn't have so many parameters.

I don't really want (or need) to accurately emulate a room 16m * 20m with a concrete floor, carpet on the ceiling, wooden walls with four pillars distributed evenly around the room, with the sound source in the far left corner and the receiver 10m away, pointed at an angle of 140 degrees from the direct line to the sound source.

I want a "warm room, about that big" or "a hall"
Royston

I agree. Someone mentioned that some of the best devices have the least amount of knobs on them, like the LA2A.

About the MasterVerb series, they do sound a bit artificial & metallic. You can EQ them for a specific purpose, but I do prefer the STW/Warp products.