PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

In the past I have realised problems with the STS samplers in that each channel of a stereo sample occassionally do not playback at the same time which causes the effect of having phase issues.

Bearing this problem in mind, I have been trying to figure out what is actually causing it. My thoughts included MIDI timing from Cubase to SFP or a problem with the STS series samplers themselves.

With the introduction of Wolf's step sequencer, I thought to myself this could be the solution to all my problems???

So i have tried his demo and created a project soley in SFP using Wolf's device sequencing the Blue Synth. Both devices have 'init' preset to make things simple.

So, I press a key on my MIDI controller to set the sequencer off to play the same note for all 32 steps. Now the Blue Synth is bleeping at me as it should. Fine.

I then up the BPM setting on Wolf's sequencer and so that it is fast enough for me to guage a sense of consistent MIDI timing or accuracy (~120 bpm).

I notice that my MIDI timing is all over the place (not accurate, inconistent). I am panicing because I didn't realise I had MIDI timing this bad.

Everyone on here that had mentioned anything to do with MIDI timing has said that SFP is rock solid - but I am far from experiencing this.

NOTE: I am not saying it is Wolf's device that is at fault. I am saying that I have problems with SFP!!

I also know that everyone else seems happy with it and am now asking for HELP! from you guys as to anything I can look at/try/tweek on my PC that you can think of that will get me closer to resolving this issue.

I can post an mp3 to demonstrate if you wish. My system is totally unusable in this state and need your help desperately as I have come to a stage in my life (after one hell of a head f@#k) that I am determined to make a go in this hobby I have and I don't like to think that I have spent this much time and effort and money on SFP (and devices) to render it all useless.

Things I have already thought about that I will give a try tonight is:

1) ULLI latency setting (currently 4ms @44.1) but although I thought this only applied to ASIO does have an impact on my MIDI timing aswell - is this right??

2) Starting up in safe mode and working from there.

3) end processes (safe ones) and see if this makes a difference.

4) PCI latency timer setting (set to 64 at moment if I remember right)

I currently have usb 2.0, and ethernet enabled in bios but they do not have much activity when I experience this problem with SFP but I will give it a go at disabling these and seeing it things improve.

My PC is a P4PE mobo with p4 2.4GHz/533, 1gb DDR333 corsair ram, xp pro (acpi enabled), sp1214n and sp1614n samsuing hard drives set to UDMA100, p650 agp matrox graphics, pulsar 2, and 2 scope srb and that is it!

I am sorry for the long post but I am very concerned and really need (and would appreciate) help from you guys.

If anything tell me if I am on the right track and any other suggestions would be great.

Thanks again.

Forgot to mention that I have done MOST tweeks to XP for audio that have been mentioned but probably not all so if you can think of any that may possibly cause a problem flag 'em up to me just to make sure that I have done it already or it maybe something I can try.

Another thing I was going to try was fiddle with the XP priority setting for the SFP executable. Do you think this would help?

Thanks.

I have tried all of the above with NO success.

this is a sound clip of what I am experiencing (please listen):

http://deejaysly.users.btopenworld.com/test.mp3

does it sound like I have a timing problem?
(it sounds very inconsistent timing between notes to me)

this clip is the SFP MIDI keyboard device holding note C5, connected to Wolf's new sequencer (demo) with 'init' preset, which is driving a bluesynth also with 'init' preset.

The sequencer has bpm setting of 120bpm with 1/1 speed.

I measured the time between notes and have seen it vary by up to 18ms!!!!!!

Am I missing something here???

Thanks in advance.

Hi deejaysly,

your clip sounds indeed a bit "groovy" .
I never had that and I just retried it with your setup, but can't reproduce it here, so I'm not shure where to start.

You say, with your midi controller it works fine, but not with the one in scope ?
Are you syncing scope via cubase Midi Clock ?

If no, did you set the swing sliders to zero ?
Also make shure, the LFO doesn't affect the swing (should be set to "--").
Finally set the groove to 2/1 to check if it is the same there (the "groove" should become more obvious then).

And does this happen as well if you run the same sequence from your main sequencer driving the bluesynth ?
If not and you are using external sync, the Midi Clock seems to be the problem.

And would you be so kind to send me the test project, you made, so I can check it here ?
Perhaps we can sort out your problem this way, so you can finally use your scope rig !

best
Wolfgang

_________________
<a href="http://www.worldless.com/sfp">wolf audio design</a>
<a href="http://www.worldless.com">worldless productions</a>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wolf on 2004-11-08 19:21 ]</font>

SFP MIDI keyboard->sequencer->Bluesynth was what you heard in the sound clip where it shows variations up to 18ms.

External MIDI controller (Fatar SL760) driving the sequencer gave the same results.

Cubase (SX 2) driving the sequencer (single long note) gave similar results aswell with variation between 10 and 40ms but consequence I think.

swing sliders set to zero, LFO set to "--" as it is the sequencers 'init' preset.

mp3 sequencer switched to 2/1 speed (better but still get variations of 10ms doesn't sound so bad to the ear because it is slower I guess): http://deejaysly.users.btopenworld.com/2_1.mp3

*Stop Press* : Driving the Blue Synth directly from Cubase with a similar speed pattern was near enough perfect!!! (only 2ms variation measured): http://deejaysly.users.btopenworld.com/cubase_2.mp3

MIDI Clock..., now, the first clip you heard (test.mp3) was SFP in isolation - just the SFP MIDI keyboard, sequencer, blue synth, mixer and I/Os for sound. If this is the case, does it still need a MIDI clock to be supplied from somewhere for the devices to operate with consistent timing?

The only thing in cubase I can seem to find is the Devices->Device Setup->VST Multitrack ASIO option - 'Sync to CW DSP Hardware'. I have a feeling this is way off track. Also I will point out that I am NOT using Emulated MIDI ports.

Now Cubase driving the synth directly seems fine which would explain why I have never seen this before but I don't understand why the sequencer driving the synth would have not nice timing (same results with Mr. Bowen's step sequencers aswell).

@Wolf: Thanks for your ideas and most of all for replying in the first place. I think I might try re-installing SFP or something coz I can't explain this not unless I have mentioned something else that gives you another idea let me know. Can you think of anything internal to SFP that I may be missing? Thanks again.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: deejaysly on 2004-11-08 20:17 ]</font>

Hi,

I was able to reproduce it with your project (thanks for sending it to me), BUT reloading the step sequencer or using EZSynth instead of Bluesynth solved the problem. Could you try and verify this ?

thanks
Wolfgang

_________________
<a href="http://www.worldless.com/sfp">wolf audio design</a>
<a href="http://www.worldless.com">worldless productions</a>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wolf on 2004-11-09 06:00 ]</font>

Wolf, you give me hope!!!!!!!! All your ideas are getting me a step closer to sorting it out each time.

Right, just to clarify...

In the case of the sequencer, when you say 'reload', I am assuming you mean actually deleting the device from the project and then dragging it into the project again?? (I am not aware of any way of reloading a device apart from this - is this the only way?)

I am at work now and will not be home till late tonight - i will then try it with the EZsynth and reloading your step sequencer into the project to see if it corrects the problem for me.

Did you notice whether the problem corrected itself just by reloading the step sequencer or changing to the EZsynth rather than do both at the same time? (maybe I will see this) - I want to get a clear idea of your actions to getting it working as I may have read your post wrong.

The only thing that doesn't add up here would be the fact that driving the bluesynth directly from cubase, using the same project, was tight as a drum - maybe if it's a reloading issue then it might work just by reloading the step sequencer. We shall see......

Let me know if you can recall any of the above cases. Thanks again Wolf!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: deejaysly on 2004-11-09 06:29 ]</font>

yes, with reloading I mean deleting and loading it again.
Either this OR changing the midi out to EZSynth solved it here. You can also connect EZSynth as well as BlueSynth and listen, if they differ from each other (didn't try this, but will this evening).

Also I assume, you have send short notes from cubase to the Bluesynth. You can try this as well with the step sequencer by pulling down the gate length. My suspicion is, that BlueSynth doesn't like note on coming too fast after a note off, but I haven't tried that yet to verify.

best
Wolfgang

okay, I get a complete picture now. Will try that this evening.

...and yes, if you listen to the links above you will hear that test.mp3 and cubase2.mp3 are identical in their tempo and note length where test.mp3 is bluesynth played by the 32-step sequencer and cubase_2.mp3 is bluesynth played by notes of a MIDI track in cubase directly.

I will let you know what happens (post my results here) as soon as I know.

Fingers (and toes) crossed that I experience the same as you did with my project.

Thanks.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: deejaysly on 2004-11-09 08:23 ]</font>

If you've got it perhaps try b2003?

It has plenty of polyphony (no issues with oscs triggering wrong or envelopes not resetting fast enough there) and some of the more percussive settings should show audible timing problems if they exist...

@valis : Thanks for your input valis - I tried it with the b2003 and got the same thing (bad timing).

@wolf : I have sent you an e-mail (a bit long and probably confusing to post here)

Tried Pro-One with internal sequencer enabled and that was tight as a drum <0.5ms variation.

Re-tried the Solaris with internal sequencer that was fine aswell (originally mentioned that I thought I had problem with this but it appears that is not the case)

Still pondering on whether I have a duff SFP install????

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: deejaysly on 2004-11-09 20:44 ]</font>