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I still haven't tried to do this with flexor modules yet. Here's the problem. I need to modulate the AD directly. Not with mod amount.

Problem with mod amount is that I don't seem to be able to get enough range with it. I turn the mod amount to max, and set attack to 200ms or something. No matter how much mod signal I feed it, the attack never goes down to 0ms.

The goal of this is to emulate a thunder sound. (again) What I'm trying to do is to change the enveleope on the thunder so that it's sometimes weak (far away rumble), and sometimes a 0ms attack (nearby thunder strike). The attack is very important so I don't want to settle with 10ms attack or whatever else. It needs to be a dead on 0ms attack.

The ideal would be to be able to feed the AD&Mod exact numbers, like 0ms attack or 300ms attack. I doubt this is possible, so if anyone can think of a workaround please help me. It seems to me that the "mod amount" actually multiplies the original value by a certain ratio.(like 70% to 140% or whatever. I need something like 0% to 100% type modulation) Perhaps I'm using the AD&Mod in a wrong way.

God am I close to getting the right sound!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-11-06 08:52 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-11-06 08:53 ]</font>

imho you're digging in the wrong direction, Ken.
The original soundsource of a thunder is a series of pulses without any measurable attack at all following the line of the electrical reaction.
The duration of that sequence is the amount of time the reaction lasts, depending on the flashes' length. I dunno the real physical params but that should be easy to find out.

The sound you're after is the sound at the position of the observer and as such always displaced at least in the milliseconds range.
1 m observer distance are about 2 ms delay, which reminds me at the 10ms when such a thing once just missed our house
Well, there wasn't much structure in the sound but just one mighty crash and everything around illuminated

If a pattern in the thunder sound gets noticable, then it's caused by reflections, phasing effects due to different airpressure, wind etc.
None of that should be a problem from the timescale viewpoint.
You can fake a 'virtual' attack phase by placing a series of pulses with microdelays one after the other, which represents at least a little bit the physical origin.

cheers, Tom

Interesting project Ken !
I have no ideas however ...
There are a wide variety of thunders and I'am in total awe in front of the show
I'am more impressed by this kind of variety than a good fireworks show.
15 years ago when I was still in my small country town I had the most terrible lightning and thunder display : my 10 on the scale, since I heard only no more than 4 thunders, both in dB and " creativity".

Multi century trees were * exploded * !!! one peculiarly, sequoi " kind " : around 40m high, more than 3m diameter ... the day after I found big branches more than 100 m away, vertical size reduced to 1 m !!!

The house was more than shaking ... scary, hell on earth !

Sorry about the digression !

Hope you'll find a solution.

I've posted a test recording in the music forum and you'll see what I mean. weak attack sucks.

a few minutes ago I read a tutorial about the NI Battery.
One chapter was talking about the socalled 'punch' of a sound, which is what you're after if I'm right.
It's explained that punch is made by 'sustaining' the attack fase with some degree.
The Minimoog has a fixed attack fase of 30 ms, meaning the initial attack level stays on top during 30 ms, which is the secret of it's punchy character.
Lengthening the attack you can get by compressing or by applying a extended enveloppe.
What I'm adding here is that the speed of the attack time is not the only parameter that is important, the length of it seems to be even more.
Maybe this helps somehow

_________________
Let There Be Music!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2003-11-07 10:11 ]</font>

ah! good advice. will definitely try to implement it.

Yes, Battery has AHD(SR) envelopes. H=Hold. (S&R can be additionally enabled/disabled).