PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

hm...damn...I thought falling ito a black hole will change thing..................................`S`

these guys really don't know what they are doing.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s//ap/20080918/ap ... u_big_bang

And by the wy...who is judging aournd there? Has somebody been at the big bang? So when they say it works it is based on a hypothetic acceptation which is based on a hypothetic acceptation. Which seldom will match reality.
So it is rather a luxury toy or better a penisgrower for people, where the slk doesn`t fit their wanted sizes.
I doubt that you will really gain something new to work with, which wasn`t already there to be known. And I doubt it even more, that it will be brilliant stuff for a remake of John Carpenter movies.

the nuclear teasts are similar, yes. the military budget pays for those things, and there was a real chance of disaster in all those experiments. cfcs and especially co2 are junk science for the masses, and not experiments.

CERN overheated

Now they proved at least, that human made balck holes are also guilty for being an reason of the greenhouse effect.

stardust wrote:

Zer wrote:CERN overheated

Now they proved at least, that human made balck holes are also guilty for being an reason of the greenhouse effect.

Any energy you produce and use goes to heat in the end due to increasing entropy.

So the question is where does the energy stem from. And where does it go as it is heat in the total balance of the atmosphere.

greenhouse can increase from disbalancing the solar enrgy income versus outgoing and certainly earthly heat production.

Probably I should have stated, that this one has been intended to be a joke.

garyb wrote:let me know when the LHC does anything of importance...

Like invent the internet? Also the technology for PET scanners was developped at CERN. But that was just in the preparations for the construction...

Einstein said that time was relative. Decennia later still we came up with GPS satellites, and if not for the corrected GPS satellite clocks, earth clocks would lag cos time goes faster here and we'd be landing airplanes in the city and driving cars out of direction.
Einstein also predicted gravitational lensing by heavy objects, which was first observed in the 50ies, and only a couple months ago Hubble for the first time used the gravitational lens as an optical lens - to look at and focus on something even more distant.

I hear you coming, Hubble, another waste of money. The technology for digital camera's, CCD were developed for Hubble. Now made smaller it fits in your cams and in your cellphone. Who could imagine a life without?

Quantum mechanics, probably another fairytale. Without QM, bye bye electronic gear.

Some complex theories have far-fetched consequences, and countless unexpected unanticipated applications. And real practical applications derived from theories developped at, or confirmed by observations at, the LHC are already being discovered - if alone for the construction of the machine, let alone what will come out once it's operating.

Regards,
at0m.

But apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have scientists done for us?

Nevertheless the grey zone between funding and property rights of results, between results and usage and marketing of them is hard to control for scientists due to the long time between research and application and also the intransparent or gagging contracts.

That will sure be true for much company funded research.
However, the LHC being a near world-wide collaboration project will publish its results on its homepage. Hundreds of universities are involved, and their findings will be online.
You want to run the same software at home? Check out https://www.scientificlinux.org/ and download a copy The CERN site even has the plans and schematics online for you to build your own LHC. Now start saving...

PS: After the "overheating" problem from last week, the LHC is back fully operational!
PPS: It's back down today. Status page at http://hcc.web.cern.ch/hcc/field.php :]

Liquid Len wrote:But apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have scientists done for us?

ok, i'll play. i'll take the opposite point of view for arguement's sake.

i don't remember any of the scientists i know doing any of those things. sanitation wouldn't need to be improved without the city. neither would public health. medicine is still death. freshwater systems don't require science, people have been drinking for thousands of years. irrigation doesn't require theoretical physics, just sense. public order was established by those who scientists work for. the public order is non existant unless you mean mass control and coersion. the kind of public order that science will bring will be a neural implant that will run you. resistance is futile.

i come from a family of high-level scientists and philosophers(my uncle started the program at a major university and my grandfather started a program for a major high tech contractor, among others) and i can safely say that theoretical physics has only brought us toys, trouble and some interesting but worthless ideas(unless you count space food sticks and tang).

..and the internet is certainly a trap. play on.

we live in this world now and there's no going back, but if you really think any of this is done for YOUR benefit, you are truly mislead.

look, there's a reason why they call it re-search.

these guys know nothing. their masters already know the name of the rose.

i'm not advocating the end of "progress" necessarily. as i said, we are already here. i'm just not willing to make science and technology my religion, nor am i willing to believe that it can solve "problems" in every case. i certainly don't see science as the solution to human breeding and behavior. i don't see science as a proper master of love or family. i don't see it as more profound than the experience of life itself. one must do something in this life. as stardust is want to say, it's important to be responsible. the main problem with the "elite" is their arrogance. likewise some in the scientific community...

with a degree in physics and a work in the field of research, i can tell you that, according to me, the LHC is REALLY the greatest achievement of science, technology, and human mind...
regarding science... and what has done for us... science told us that the moon is not made of cheese, told us how our planet was born, how WE were born, how stars and planets spin around themselves, how matter is composed... and many many other wonders.
science is the consequence of the human desire to know. there is no "reason" for it... or at least, the reason is that we ARE human EXACTLY because we'd like to know the world around us. if it were not so, we would still be monkeys...
for sure, not all people are intersted in knowledge, but all people (or, maybe, the biggest part of humankind) are now enjoying the fruits of science even without knowing it.

*edit**stardust, you beat me to the posting... *

with all due respect,
science is a METHOD of testing ideas about the world. it is not a savior. technology is neat gadgets. why do we insist on getting these things out of proportion?

as i said, i have family who STARTED programs for major institutions. i'm no hater, just truthful when possible. LHC is a phenomenal acheivement in engineering and architecture. it's also an irresponsible waste of money and monument to hubris. we don't need more science to solve the problems created by corporate run societies and eugenics run amuck. we just need more real life and humanity.

why continue to make the gadgets more important than the actual life? why do we value almost any animal life over our own human life? these devices are the cause of troubles. more devices and study is always required to fix the problems created by the last solution. i suspect that the reason for this is that none of this work is ever done for humanity's benefit. rather these studies are items of vanity for those who hold the power over the flow of wealth and are always used to kill or control humans in the end. it's true that these military works lead to nice things in our lives occasionally, but that's only because humans always turn things to their use if possible, and because those nice things further enslave us to a system. i read about this thing and see pictures and i'm impressed and i understand why the highly trained lackeys who are all part of a compartmentalized operation that even the highest level operators don't fully comprehend are excited to be a part of such a major project, but there's nothing for the common man in it. the common man will likely be euthanized eugenicly and never see it coming, all the while dreaming of a wonderful scifi future where everyone is superman and travels across the stars and lives almost forever in health....

bosone, the biggest part of humanity not only never enjoys the fruits of this work(the great work or we can call it science), but more often than not receives the brunt of the force this work is capable of projecting. for most, the technological world is a hell hole. for people like you and i, and especially you and those you know, there are many nice advantages to the so-called scientific world, but the majority by far, find that they would be better off, being poor in a system that only loves money, and MOST are and will be poor, if they were even ALLOWED to live on their own land, mind their own business, grow their own food at least a little and live their own life. that would be the elimination of poverty. then ANCIENT technology like plumbing could make a man's nice little corner into paradise.

i'm ok with RE search and all, and if there are people going into space and mining the moon and finding other planets, that's all good too. let's drop the whole specialness thing for scientists though. thier poop smells too, and their work is less valuable than any city's garbage man(try to live without him in a modern packed city). their work is no more amazing than a good mother, a great cowboy, many musicians i've seen, farm workers, sculptors, or just nice people's every day niceness. they know some specialized things. there are other things they do NOT know. they are NOT all wise as a group.

or so continues my opinion....

Hi Gary,

I get your reasoning on it, but human societies have the politicians and scientist they deserves!

I mean materialistic societies will alway adulterate science because they don't seek human being but money.

You should not throw a stone to scientists but rather be dubious about human capability to control its reptilian brain. Social evolution haven't evolved at the same pace than science and this distortion lead to what you observe.

Anyway, a branch of science need other branches to evolve in order to be able to ac hieve new progress. You cannot expect medicine to evolve if technology do not progress for example. The bad use of these new technologies is our responsability.

cheers

MD69, with all respect once more, the average person doesn't understand these things and he has been trained by those abusing things like science not to understand. it is wrong to blame his fate on him just like it is wrong to beat your team of oxen for not being able to pull the plow after you break all their legs...

people DO NOT deserve this. saying that they do is just repeating the propaganda of the abusers. it's time to stop hating humanity, because to hate humanity is to hate one's self and hating one's self leads to suffering and suicide, an end only psychopaths take pleasure in seeing...

sustainability is a phantom.

we need no extraordinary actions, just some common sense.

it's just like guys like Al Gore telling us that we are energy hogs and must cut down while he has a $30,000 monthly electricity bill on just one home. how much energy does LHC use? there are NO shortages, just mean distribution and usury...

You've outdone yourself this time Gary- "No shortages"

Great, go tell it to Ethiopians!

Here's my 2 cents although i doubt anyone's gonna make an effort and actually read it, but then you never know...

http://www.ed.psu.edu/icik/2004Proceedi ... -davis.pdf

enjoy it,


Peace

MikeRaphone wrote:You've outdone yourself this time Gary- "No shortages"

Great, go tell it to Ethiopians!

Peace

the Ethiopian shortages are not caused by a lack of food. rather they are genocidal.

Gary, not meaning to pick on the US here, but a rather large percentage of the US population would like to see Ethiopians continue to starve. In fact they would be perfectly happy to see most of Africa & many other countries wiped off the face of the planet. Maybe the world's most prolific aid dealing power listens to their people??

I agree that starvation and need are mostly caused by market issues, greed and plain old fashioned racism.

How many concerts have there been to help the situation in Ethiopia? Live Aid, Band aid, Live 8.... I could be cynical and say that problems in Ethiopia are actually good for the music industry... Either way, it hasn't helped much, has it? Sure, we got a lot of footage of starving people, and dying children. And then what?

As for the LHC, it seems to be doing its job pretty well... I can see the black hole already

Mike, thanks for the article, I'm halfway through, right now. It's true, diversity is not respected. Genocide, in its many forms, prevails on this planet. Still today, it does. I think we could do better, but hey, what do I know?

Much peace to you all,

T