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The only way planet Earth had a creator is if the big bang which created our universe was an experiment gone wrong at the hands of someone or something in another universe.

I am personally another one here who doesn't believe in any traditional God or religious texts. I do like deep & meaningfull 'stories', they can be an inspiring read & that's all any religious story is to me. The supposedly devine stories of history & truth are mostly flawed fables, tall (very tall) tales from an ancient past. I view *any* belief in *any* 'god' utterly pointless & ill informed, but that's just me. Some people view this matter very differently. Without their religious beliefs, they would not be whole. In many cases, people with strong religious beliefs tend to lean very heavily on them. The picture I have in mind is of a personalised crutch (walking aid for someone elderly or with weak legs) which says "emotional stability" on the side or on the box.

OH .... & HAPPY NEW YEAR !!

cheers all

On 2006-01-01 04:57, stardust wrote:
...Sciences (serious ones) never claim to cover the complete reality. ...

but obviously a majority of scientists is not that serious... they'd never subscribe to that statement
From a scientific viewpoint call yourself lucky if you can explain even 10% of our existence (or of the context we consider 'reality')

cheers, tom

exactly what I had in mind
and since the latter group represents the quantitative majority they also have a broad (public) coverage.
Turning their convictions into almost religious beliefs they dig on the same facts over and over again, adding level after level of detail, pretending to approach an imaginary 'truth'.

yet there's a stunningly small (if at all) attempt of exploring fundamentally new concepts.

there are trustworthy reports of 'medical care' persons who are able to do precise diagnosis in the complete absence of ANY 'scientific' tools, just by sensing someone's heartbeat.

a typical scientist would probably comment this as impossible, as an amplitude sensed by your fingertips can never contain this information - but who knows if it's in the amplitude at all ?
What if that's just the 'vehicle' to open up for the 'mind' to a different layer of reality unsensible to most of us ?

cheers, tom

You misunderstood Stardust, there was no intention or feeling of superiority on my part.
I don't quote philisophical texts in some attempt to seem more inteligent or superior in any way as some people here it would seem do

We're all different, we have many beliefs & although I've not already said so, I do believe in respecting everyone's beliefs, be they rediculous or not in my minds eye

No, not at all Stardust. I believe in many things as most of us do. I simply meant that what I would consider to be fablistic and false gods are not among my interests. Time moves quickly, life is short. I view these persuits & religious beliefs as an outdated waste of time among many other things. Of course, I waste time in other ways, but we probably all do, right

On 2005-12-31 10:46, Liquid Len wrote:

On 2005-12-31 10:28, Music Manic wrote:

On 2005-12-31 08:22, Liquid Len wrote: You only have to read some of that nut's writings to see that his god WAS the Christian god.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord"

He justified much of his antisemitism by using Christian and Biblical arguments. It's not like jew-hatred was unknown in Europe before him! Christians have claimed that he was an atheist, humanist, etc, 'and that proves how evil atheism is' but according to any history i've read, is simply nonsense. The sorry tale of cooperation from the Catholic church is another clear historical reality which the Catholics have denied ever since it happened.

Don't deny Jew's suffering but which places have they become most affluent.Isn't the U.S.A. a Christian constitution?So how comes they're not suffering there.

OK then, but what does this answer have to do with what I typed?

Well what you say is confusing.You said Hitler's God was Christian but it wasn't and my reference to their persecution states that they were also at their most affluent in these so called Christian constitutions.
Further to that do you believe that every German was against and believed in the same things? This is the blanket belief we are all confused with and makes us stigmatise groups of people rather than the individual cause.

i KNOW hubird is gonna like the above post

Well what you say is confusing.You said Hitler's God was Christian but it wasn't and my reference to their persecution states that they were also at their most affluent in these so called Christian constitutions.
Further to that do you believe that every German was against and believed in the same things? This is the blanket belief we are all confused with and makes us stigmatise groups of people rather than the individual cause.

OK, what was that quote about then? "Almighty creator", "Lord", kind of sounds like the christian god...

I guess you could argue that although he CLAIMED to worship the christian god, he really worshipped the forces of darkness. When I hear the phrase 'god is dead' I don't particularly associate it with worship of evil, I associate it with "no belief in supernatural forces, period". Now I see that maybe it's reasonable to consider it a part of worship of evil, so now I understand you. I thought you were claiming hitler was an atheist or a humanist or something.

And no I don't think germans were all of 'one mind' about hitler. BUT sufficient numbers of them either supported him or refused to speak out against him, to allow him to do what he did. And it wasn't just germans, many countries in europe were convinced to take part in it because they had sufficient people with those kind of prejudices too. And of course there were people in every country who protected and hid the jews, just like during the crusades.

Finally, weren't jews somewhat affluent during the pre-hitler austria and germany, at least at the start of the 20th century? Those were considered christian nations werent they? i'm not sure what the significance of jews prospering in america makes to the argument.

On 2006-01-01 11:24, Liquid Len wrote:

Finally, weren't jews somewhat affluent during the pre-hitler austria and germany, at least at the start of the 20th century? Those were considered christian nations werent they? i'm not sure what the significance of jews prospering in america makes to the argument.

Well you've just answered what I'm talking about.Christianity isn't the culprit of peoples bad actions.

I really don't know what I believe in to be honest.
I can't get my head around the existence of a "higher power".
I can't get my head around organised religion.
None of these things makes any sense to me at all.
I don't understand Misanthropy.
I don't understand racism, homophobia etc. etc.

So basically as long as the sun still exists and continues to provide the raw power source for life on this planet . . . I'm a reasonably happy camper.
Too simplistic? Yup -
So I guess I actually believe in a form of self- controlled ignorance and the promise of bliss that waits for me . . . hang on . . . but what does that mean?

On 2006-01-01 09:11, piddi wrote:
i KNOW hubird is gonna like the above post

Yes, and it looks like this small relegion of mine against blind quoting gets some apostles already
But seriously, I'm sure people will read and understand the new post better when the quote is directed to the essential phrase, or, even better, is formulated shortly in own words.
Probably this will also sharpen the argumentation of the new post

Specially quoting everything from the last post looks quite silly to me.
Think of it: if one might say I don't have a point, and quoting is normal, then the consequence would be that every post on planetz can start with a quote...every post...

We don't want that, eh?
Conclusion: if one takes his freedom to quote blindly, he only can do that without a problem because most others don't...

Conclusion: this proves that there is a social (community) factor involved, which makes posting behaviour a form of social acting on it's own.
Dull quoting relies on the self moderating discipline of the other ones, and this gives me the right to bother you about this subject

And then, when you take full consequence of the idea that (dull) (re)quoting should be considered as normal, Planetz wasn't readable at all.
It would lead, on logical grounds, to exponential cumulating posts, untill eternity...because former quotes will also be quoted.

Off topic?
No man, I'm God, this is my Religion, and lousy senseless quoting is the Satan.






........... 'I like quoting'


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'I like quoting'

Me too man!


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'I like quoting'
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'I like quoting'

Me too man!

Thank you man!


............

'I like quoting'
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'I like quoting'

Me too man!
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'I like quoting'
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'I like quoting'

Me too man!

Thank you man!

You're welcom man!









<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2006-01-01 17:20 ]</font>

On 2006-01-01 17:17, hubird wrote:

On 2006-01-01 09:11, piddi wrote:
i KNOW hubird is gonna like the above post

Yes, and it looks like this small relegion of mine against blind quoting gets some apostles already

I really will try to respect your religion in the future. Sometimes I'm in so much hurry I can't make every observance, I know, that's no excuse. The devil made me do it!

On 2006-01-01 15:00, blgrace wrote:
I really don't know what I believe in to be honest.
I can't get my head around the existence of a "higher power".
I can't get my head around organised religion.
None of these things makes any sense to me at all.
I don't understand Misanthropy.
I don't understand racism, homophobia etc. etc.

So basically as long as the sun still exists and continues to provide the raw power source for life on this planet . . . I'm a reasonably happy camper.
Too simplistic? Yup -
So I guess I actually believe in a form of self- controlled ignorance and the promise of bliss that waits for me . . . hang on . . . but what does that mean?

What you actually believe is natural.The Greeks said that we live in a state of flux and things are forever changing.It is very hard for a human to change every day though so we live through the medium by building a home and a set of things to live by.

yeah, but what's this preoccupation with boys and sperm? both the greeks and guys like crowley seem to have strange preoccupations.... the greeks were well know for loving young boys above women(well, in the aristocratic circles anyway) as are the current leaders and priests...crowley spoke about blood sacrifice being one of the strongest roads to spiritual power and the the best sacrifice was a young, innocent boy. he also spoke on the benefits of semen as a power serum. the trick with semen, according to crowley was that it must never touch the air, or it would be poison. he and his "spermo-gnostics" were said to be quite fond of taking semen into the body.....

moloch, child sacrifice, this is the world that existed when the books of the bible wore first formed. the abrahamic god was quite mild in comparison. followers were told to respect each other, live together fairly and not do evil to each other, don't sacrifice the children(!), treat the women fairly. treat the foriegner fairly, etc. because the same old "adversary" worship is what the leaders believe in, those types of teachings are often lost, or used as bait for the hook.

and as to the name "shaitan" or the "adversary", he is the adversary of man, not god. the creator is omnipotent. the adversary is the makers servant. just as the snake is the rat's adversary and the rat who tangles with the snake gets eaten, so the adversary of man....

once again, just relating some history. it doesn't matter what people think. they know nothing of any real importance and they're in charge of nothing. people are going no where and they are not evolving into anything. people who are making sense of things are fooling themselves. the universe is whole and complete and man is of that, rejoice! it's pretty cool...

brought to you by those with nothing better to do.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-01-01 23:18 ]</font>