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Thats right stardust "sunshine"
I flew over Siberia once and it was all snow and ice , I flew over it 3 weeks later going the other way and it wasn't . Some years it's hot some years it's colder . Some years it rains some years it doesn't . Some years it burns other years it doesn't .What goes up goes down , what goes down goes up . It doesn't even matter whats going on the northern hemisphere the southern hemisphere goes it's own way ALL THROUGH GEOLOGICAL HISTORY . Yes HISTORY not models built by ambitious young researchers looking for their next grant in the next big academic growth industry . Look mate the indisputable evidence is there .... they've been bullshitting you and if they get any more oxygen they'll keep bullshiting you . . If braincell had anything to say other than the endless repetition of a someones idea of an impressive graph I reckon he would have said it by now dont you . FOR CHRISTS SAKE the FIRST graph produced by the IPCC was COMPLETE Bullshit and they didn't even have the sense to say we screwed up there boys ...they just changed it and hoped no one would notice . Well it was noticed . Not by "Climate Scientists" but by GEOLOGISTS because they have a lot of expertise in looking at the past , Thats their frigging job mate looking at the developement of the planet not trying to interpret and extrapolate sets of data recorded by instrumentation that has only existed for the last 20 years or so in isolation from any history .

at0m wrote:

i wonder what it looked like 1000 years ago when most of Europe was too hot for hearths to be built inside the homes and grapes grew in England...

how much of the ice melting on Kilimanjaro is due to volcanic activity? the volcano last erupted a couple hundred years ago and in 2003 magma was found to be only 1000 feet or so from the surface. a picture can really decieve without all the related facts. it may very well be that "climate change" itself is the sole cause of the change in the glaciers of that mountain. even so, the meaning of that is uncertain as well. climate change is one of earth's only constants. CO2 isn't the cause, however.

this doesn't change the truth that data which is being used as a excuse to tax every human being on the planet was falsified and that there was an institutional attempt to discredit those who questioned that fake data. the perpetrators' own documents, which have been acknowledged as real by those very perpetrators prove this beyond the shadow of a doubt.

I quote Stephen Hawking, physicist, but I don't remember in which book of him I've read that:

If only electricity consumption will maintain its growth rate for another 400 years, planet earth will be glowing red hot.

That's got nothing to do with CO2 or climate or whatever, it's just electrical heat from electric and electronic devices. And anyone can argue the amount of years Hawking calculated, but a child can see there's logic in the statement: Any electrical current eventually ends up as heat.

at0m wrote:

Scientists believe we've reached that point.

at0m wrote:

If you don't think 7 billion humans can exert a change on Mother Nature, consider a thought experiment. That is ... could 10 billion humans exert a change? 50 billion? What if the whole Earth were covered with humans? Could we exert a change on nature then? There is some point where humans can exert a change on nature. Scientists believe we've reached that point.

And still more has been done with less. Right ?

Any curve about population growth around?

Mr Arkadin wrote:

at0m wrote:

Scientists believe we've reached that point.

well, as usual they talk BS
just because people pile up in a few cities (for cash sake) doesn't mean population is as dense as that anywhere on the planet
nevertheless the statement makes me concerned... if it's scientists...
they'll probably solve the issue with the next generation type of vaccine... since they can't rely on war anymore

cheers, Tom

Humans have definitely had impact, but again, despite the brainwash, CO2 is not the issue, but an after-image. Tons of overlapping science ranging from solar, to geothermal, etc. point to cyclic warming/cooling behavior that was going on when all we were doing was barbecuing Mastodons.

And again, taxing us and penalizing us after the fact, will not reduce human impact, nor will at acknowledge the historical data.

Those that buy into the brainwash will pay because the rich elitist fronting this fraud will only benefit. There will be no 'trickle-down'.

G

thank you, greg.

once again, about population-ALL of humanity fits in the state of Texas with 1100 square feet per person. anyone can do the math. the earth is much bigger than you think, small and limited though it is.

the thing is, although i do NOT love everything that people do, i DO love people. of all life on this planet, people come FIRST. this is natural because i'm a person and i don't hate myself. this doesn't excuse my RESPONSIBILITIES toward the rest of creation, but it certainly doesn't justify the destruction of the masses for the comfort of the very special(which most think they should be part of).

so mr Hawking had some fun with figures and showed that IF electronics AS THEY ARE TODAY, continued to proliferate AT THE CURRENT RATE, there would be disaster. wellllll, ok. we'll see if THAT actually happens. if all the scary vampires decided to start sucking everyone's blood all at once, everyone would be doomed vampires! if a weird plant comes to earth on a meteorite and starts growing uncontrolllably, all life on earth will perish! if a mad scientist recreates dinosaurs from dna trapped in amber, no one will be safe! where's count floyd? scary kids!

all THEORIES aside, again, the point of this thread is that the University of East Anglia, the compiler of THE data on CO2 driven mad-made global warming, the basis of the work done by the IPCC, had it's email server hacked and Lo! and Behold! smoking gun evidence that the data was ALL FAKE and that the compilers had engaged in a witch hunt to discredit anyone who questioned their data, VERY unscientific. the UofEA has confirmed that the emails are real. it's time to deal with reality, not possibilities or fantasies. is it a good idea to be "earth friendly" in the things one does? YES! BY ALL MEANS! CO2 is NOT the problem, however. CO2 brings LIFE to the planet. CO2 is the BASIS of life, as anyone who has studied biochemistry knows.

it's not the commoners' fault that humanity is wasteful of resources. the shepherds of humanity have set that situation up from the beginning by instituting a system that serves the greed of the most powerful FIRST and FOREMOST.

Honestly my biggest issue with modern electronics isn't the energy they consume, I think that most of my devices from my television (replaced by an HDTV LCD that's larger and uses 1/4 the energy of my previous CRT) to my computers (between speedstepping/EIST, OS-based power profiles & GPU"s that have multiple power states) to my battery operated devices and even a lot of new studio gear (since $300 plastic crap that's usb-bus powered seems to be the bulk of what's made now) are all consuming less & less power.

My concern is that the 'greening' of these things also means that they have increasingly shorter & shorter lifespans, as companies remove lead from solder (making it more brittle), push temps on certain solid state components to the point where they run 70-80C all the time, and basically design products to be disposable and cheaper to replace than repair. So the energy usage of my household has been cut dramatically over the years on my own power bill, but the amount of crap on the market that has the potential to wind up in the landfill (if I wasn't careful with my purchases and usage of purchased things) keeps going up & up.

So the same thing that many politicians exploit to expand taxes & powerbases (global warming!) corporations exploit to decrease product lifespan ("green"ing) and people use to divide & argue (you hate jobs/the planet/the future!)

iSiStOy wrote:Any curve about population growth around?

wikipedia - world population - Years for world population to double

At current rate, the population doubles about each 50 years.

If that growth rate remains, with a total surface of 5x10^14 meters, and if my back-of-the-envelope calculation was correct, by 2650 each human will have less than 1m^2 of space. Land or water - I did this to avoid decreasing land surface caused by melting ice

Pro capita energy use in the US is about 10kW. 10kW per square meter earth surface. We'll be glowing before long before that

In Australia ,a relatively wealthy country, the government was forced to offer a baby bonus to young people to give them an incentive to reproduce . Unbridled reproduction seems to me to be a situation where either /or
1, child death rate is high
2, children are needed for forced labour for the benefit of the family
3, there exists a state of religious belief in the sanctity of life ( one of the ultimate hypocrisies that one)
4, the society is poverty stricken with no useful birth control strategy
5, amd this is of course the worrying one , some people operate at a substandard level as human beings .
The solution is obvious ...increase the wealth level of every society on the planet ,increase the educational level of every society on Earth . We are not going to get there with a carbon tax or the misallocation of resources and energy which are still limited . There is nothing to be gained by reducing our standard of living whether the Karma of that appeals to some people or not ,there is everything to be gained by increasing the standard of living of everybody alive A.S.A.P.
The sad thing is that it could be done right now . Europe ,Britain , The States lifted themselves by pulling on their bootlaces , we aren't inherently better than the Africans or the South Americans or tha Asians or the Middle Easterns ,we just have a better system and we need to protect it from the Nazis and the ratbag Lefties as much as we can and we need to spread it . WE NEED TO SPREAD DEMOCRACY for all it's failings and manipulations its the best thing we've got right now . It beats warlords ,dictatorships benevolent or otherwise,theocracies , when our system fails it's never the system ,it's always the people who try to corrupt it so if you want to do something about global problems ....VOTE....exercise you right that many people died to create and if you come to the conclusion that you wasted your vote then next time vote for someone else . It is a great gravy train for the people who ride it but make and keep them accountable for their actions . Dont friggin blog or twitter VOTE

skwawks wrote:we aren't inherently better than Africans or the South Americans [...] or the Middle Easterns ,we just have a better system

Actually, we're much worse. With their consumption level, we could go on forever And it wasn't their system that took down global economics through pushy overrating traders.

Who has a culture of building and trading aircastles? It isn't Africa or South America.


For anyone interested in hurricanes (arxiv) - in some years many more will have to deal w them, they're also expected in Western Europe the coming decennia =]

skwawks wrote:... if you want to do something about global problems ....VOTE....exercise you right that many people died to create and if you come to the conclusion that you wasted your vote then next time vote for someone else . It is a great gravy train for the people who ride it but make and keep them accountable for their actions . Dont friggin blog or twitter VOTE

Voting won't do anything, since the system is rigged - READILY apparent here.

The only way to turn the tide is to STOP BUYING THEIR SHIT. Literally. Period. On our side, it's not necessarily consumption, it's WHAT we're consuming.
Global 'warming'? Stop eating McDonalds. Grow your own food and use the compost to fuel your car. Grow hemp. etc. etc.

By the time the 'elitists' realize that they've lost the game (and they have), it'll be too late. They're trying desperately to pass all these bullshit bills and taxes because the system is collapsing. The Jig is up.

G

what does this have to do with the FACT that data was MANUFACTURED to prove the fiction global warming trough CO2?

maybe some history is required. go read Thomas Maltus and see the scary graphs and figures that he used to prove that Europe would be unihabtable by the end of the 1800s due to overpopulation. that's some real nice foundational work to the eugenic garbage spewed today. the EXACT same techniques of plausible sounding figures where used and it's obvious that none of his predictions came true. lot's of his policies became public however, which has led to undue suffering by millions. educated ignorance is the biggest scourge of mankind. the FACT is that in "industrialized nations" fertility is dropping like a stone. those nations will have a hard time taking care of the old folks in just a few years in many cases. population is NOT growing unchecked, it never would, that's not how it works. and still, ALL the people in the wolrd still fit in the state of Texas TODAY with 1100 square feet per person.

common folk just go along with what their leaders tell them. if the system is flawed and evil, it's not their fault, they don't even know anything else could exist. most of us would WELCOME a system that was not corrupt, but those who run things would NEVER allow such a system.

face it, regardless of one's views on all these matters, there is a smoking gun in the faking of the CO2 global warming data. it has NOTHING to do with whether or not there are better or more ecological ways to live or not, and whether or not anyone should care. the point of this thread is that the CO2 lie is exposed. in addition, there are huge banking interests that are forming a method of taxing all humanity to solve a problem tat can't be solved with taxes and that really doesn't exist. CO2 is the BEST thing to add to the atmosphere from the perspective of life anyway. CO2 is the basis of life on the plant. taxing someone for it makes no sense at all.

siriusbliss wrote:The only way to turn the tide is to STOP BUYING THEIR SHIT. Literally.

no more computers for you...

garyb wrote:

siriusbliss wrote:The only way to turn the tide is to STOP BUYING THEIR SHIT. Literally.

no more computers for you...

Yeah, I still have 3 in use.
One of them has a starter-crank on the side.

Guess I'll sell everything and go back to acoustic/classical guitar and living in a Yurt in Hawaii.
<you think I'm joking don't you >

G

"Who has a culture of building and trading aircastles? It isn't Africa or South America."

No they've got a culture of building unstable buildings or building from materials within an easy walk because thats all they can do , and I'm sorry but it does fuck all for me .
Just tell me where do you want to get sick ? where can you eat from just about any establishment with a fair chance of not puking your guts for the next 48 hours . Where would you send your children for an education .not friggin Africa thats for sure, have you noticed they send theirs over here or maybe over where you are if they've managed to rip enough of their fellow countrymen . Do they have a problem with migrant populations illegaly emigrating from the civilised world ? NOPE ..why is that ?? pray tell if their homelands are so cool . They dont consume as much because they haven't got any way of getting stuff to consume and if they did they couldn't pay for it , and there's a fair chance they wont have the electricity or the gas to run it . You're living in cloud cuckoo land my friend if you think a retreat to medieval standards of living is a good thing . The whole system is not corrupt but there are many people in the system who are corrupt . Suppose you voted for someone who you knew had a window of a couple of years before the inevitable set in ...wouldn't it be worth giving him or her a run at it if they wanted it rather than just saying oh well it doesn't matter anyway I'll just suck on this for a while and not bother about it . Thats called apathy isn't it ? Apathy does nothing for anyone does it .
As for South America , I believe they have a culture of just printing money with little value and sending death squads out to sort the lost children
Yes Gary we know what Nails in the coffin is about what else is there to say about it that we dont know and haven't been saying for the last two years in my case on this forum . One more thing, this is a United Nations thing this global warming shit . Now those suckers are corrupt and although it might have seemed a good idea at the time I think it's time we (civilised people)ditched it before it gets us into the same mess the league of nations did