Unfortunately, THE WAR IS AGAIN HERE

lifechanger · Post by **lifechanger** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:32 am

It certainly is an ENERGY problem...
ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkish paramilitary police have seized more than 33 pounds of weapons-grade uranium and detained two men accused of smuggling the material, the state-run Anatolian news agency said on Saturday.

Officers in the southern province of Sanliurfa, which borders Syria and is about 155 miles from the Iraqi border, were acting on a tip-off when they stopped a taxi cab and discovered the uranium in a lead container hidden beneath the vehicle's seat, the agency said.

Authorities believe the uranium came from an east European country and has a value of about $5 million, Anatolian said.

It was not immediately clear when the operation was carried out. Anatolian only gave the first names of the suspects, which appeared to be Turkish.

Police in Turkey seized more than two pounds of weapons-grade uranium last November that had been smuggled into Turkey from an east European nation.

I only hope we get them before "they" get us!

The ignorant rabble or the pschyed out Islamists....or those "time-honored" peaceniks....to the anti-war anti-globalst punks that are rioting in our DC, as we speak...
WWIII, brought to you by 3rd World Creeps and lefty college students....lawdy Ms Claudy

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:44 am

[oops, I didn't mean to delete this when editing and i'm not going to rewrite it!] sorry!

[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2002-09-29 12:46 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 10:55 am

On 2002-09-28 10:44, algorhythm wrote:
people in the third world fight for their piece of the pie, 'lefty college students' understand their perspective

Really ?

I thought being a lefty college student was just a standard rite of youth, and in its own environment completely mainstream and conservative. Left is easy, you just slip into the current and start having fun.

And although I hate taking "wisdom" from movies, there's a great line in Platoon. A soldier explains that he dropped out of college and volunteered for Vietnam in solidarity with the poor boys who got drafted. The black draftee laughs: "You got to be rich in the first place to think like that."

lifechanger · Post by **lifechanger** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:25 am

This is a cultural/religious war that was declared by muslims and their fellow travellers....ya know...green on the outside, red on the inside.
Recently, C-SPAN televised an American (moderate) Islamic conference. After a series of speakers, a Islamic scholar arose to define peace. He prefaced his remarks by saying that Islam was not a pacifist religion. He said Islamic peace was the result of justice. No justice, no peace. He said the United States wouldn’t see peace until there was (Islamic) justice. This differs from the type of peace where two enemies get along with each other.

In many Arab countries, Islamic peace is maintained by imposing the death penalty upon any Muslim converting to another religion. When former President Bush visited in Saudi Arabia, peace was maintained by refusing his wish to celebrate Christmas with U.S. troops. The politically correct can keep saying, “Islam is peace”. For the rest of us, it’s wise to know their definition of peace.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:32 am

lifechanger wrote:
This is a cultural/religious war that was declared by muslims and their fellow travellers....

Didn't you hear about the poll from a while ago? 50% of the European and US citizens, equal % in each group, thinks USA caused sept.11 by their aggressive foreign politics.

Your people think your government disturbed others too much, lifechanger. Your own people -who has not choosen your president- thinks your government is at fault.
They should first mind their own business. What percentage of american citizens lives inpoverty or can't read nor write? US is almost a 3rd world country, lifechanger. Welcome to freedom.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:41 am

Do you have a link for this poll?

Post by **garyb** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:12 pm

roman citizens,your empire has always behaved thusly.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:41 pm

I don't have a link for the poll yet, I saw/heared it on TV, radio, newspapers. It was about 2 weeks ago - to get an idea of 'one year after sept.11', how economy would recover, what people consider as major threats, future visions etc.

I hope I find a link to that poll and post it soon. I heared it from different national media and respectable newspapers -no leftish propaganda or so

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:49 pm

Here's one that resembles -although I don't think it's the one.

http://www.misterpoll.com/25212295.html

Washington Post reviews on such a poll:
http://www.iht.com/articles/69645.html
and
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... Found=true

[ This Message was edited by: at0mic on 2002-09-28 15:02 ]

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:33 pm

On 2002-09-28 11:55, Spirit wrote:
I thought being a lefty college student was just a standard rite of youth, and in its own environment completely mainstream and conservative.

It depends what school you go to, although that definitely is the stereotype. I have worked in college bookstores for five years now. Having been at 5 different ones in the last month travelling, I can say that it varies quite a bit. It varied from Oberlin University (one of the most liberal/leftist schools in the U.S.) to Walsh University (a small catholic college). Where I used to go, University of Akron it was neither - most students were not Republican, Democrat, or independent - They don't think much past Abercrombie & Fitch and the Backstreet Boys. But then our "sister school" 30min. drive away is very leftist and is called Kent State University (known for the shootings during Vietnam War protests). It just depends. Not every shool can be the Berkeley of the world.

I liked your quote Spirit. I can see why both people said what they said.

_________________
algorhythm its coming!

[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2002-09-28 15:34 ]

lifechanger · Post by **lifechanger** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 3:05 pm

The Quick And Dirty Leftist's Guide To Arguing Against The War On Terrorism

Here are the key arguments lefties across the planet can use against those warmongering, oil guzzling, baby-killers on the right who are gungho about the 'war on terrorism'!

Bush Should Have Stopped It -- But Not That Way!: Instead of focusing on what we should do now, claim that Bush could have stopped 9/11 before it happened by aggressively going after the terrorists pre-911. Then reflexively oppose every suggestion the Bush administration comes up with to prevent another attack because it will create a "police state." This one drives right-wingers crazy!!

How Can We Invade Saddam When He Used To Be Our Friend? : We must force these right-wing zealots to realize that relationships between nations are NEVER are allowed to change. Since we were friends with Saddam in the eighties, it was hypocritical of us to kick him out of Kuwait and keep him from annexing Saudi Arabia. Even if he hates us now, is acquiring nukes, and has ties to terrorists we still can't attack him -- for some reason or another. I think there is a UN rule against attacking former friends for any reason or something.

If We Preemptively Attack Iraq -- Everyone Will Do It!: The United States could be setting a dangerous precedent here since no other nation has ever attacked another nation "preemptively." Wait a second, if that was true, shouldn't we always be at peace since no nation has ever attacked another nation except in self-defense? So that's Bush's evil plan, to spoil world peace!

Insist That We Give Inspections A Chance : No one believes Saddam is going to actually allow unfettered inspections but we know from a decade of experience that he can literally run the inspectors around in circles for years. The more time Saddam wastes, the closer he gets to a nuclear bomb he can use to stop Bush's filthy war!

It's About The Ordinary People : The most important reason you are against the war is because you care about the innocent people in Iraq. That's why you're so strongly against replacing the dictator who has starved, gassed, tortured, and oppressed so many of his own people -- you may not want to phrase it exactly like that, but you get the idea.

Keep Moving That Goalpost : If the pro-war crowd starts beating you up too much because you won't support war under any circumstances, say that you are willing to use force.. A) As soon as Al-Queda is destroyed, B) the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is over C) Afghanistan is a strong and stable Democracy D) Against Iran E) Against Pakistan F) Against Iran G) If inspections fail (again) H) Once the whole world agrees with us...etc. It really doesn't matter what you come up with here because the purpose is to delay things endlessly. Even if your condition were met, you would simply change the conditions you'd need to meet your goal.

Never Admit That You Are Helping Terrorists And Dictators : Act offended if anyone claims you are helping dictators and terrorists by opposing killing, capturing, or hindering them in any significant way. Sure that may be the actual RESULT of doing what you're suggesting, but INTENTIONS, not results, are what have to be considered.

Pretend To Be Offended When You're Accused Of Anti-Semitism : Just because you call Palestinian terrorists "freedom fighters", condemn every Israeli attempt to defend itself from terrorist attacks, believe Jews control the US media and government, and think a land dispute is an adequate reason for blowing up women and children at a bus stop (as long as they're Jews), does not make you anti-semitic. No matter how obvious your anti-semitism is, it doesn't count unless you ADMIT that you're anti-semitic.

Remember Who The Real Enemies Are : Obviously, George Bush and America are to blame for the 'war on terrorism.' You should certainly never blame nations like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, or the 'Disputed Territories', etc, for actually sponsoring terrorist groups that have no real purpose other than to murder innocent people.

Show Me Osama's Corpse : Even though we haven't heard from Osama Bin Laden since the United States bombed the area he was in into blood, sand, and rubble, you must insist that the 'war on terrorism' is a failure since we don't have him in hand. Sure we haven't heard a thing from him in nine and half months but he's probably just laying low! The best thing about this one is that since Osama was probably blown into a fine red mist at Tora Bora, the Bush administration will never be able to 'prove' that he's dead. This means you can't ever be proven 'wrong' when you claim that he's still alive.

Solutions? Uh.... : When pressed for solutions it's a good idea to mumble incoherently, or just say, "I don't know what we should do, but I know war isn't the answer!!!" If you're really pressed you can suggest that America should give more aid to the poor, that one never gets old.

Tell Those 'Chickenhawks' What For : Demand that anyone who is pro-war sign up for the military because only people who are willing to risk their lives in combat have a right to advocate going to war. If they counter with "well if you believe that, then you should go to Iraq and throw yourself on one of Saddam's bunkers so you can be a 'human shield'" either quickly change the subject or say that you detest Saddam (despite the fact that you are firmly against any attempt at removing him from power).

There's No Reason To Bomb Saddam! : Just because Hussein is a psychopathic dictator who gassed the Iranians and his own people, fought against the United States, tried to assassinate a US President, has massive stockpiles of WMD, is seeking nukes, and has ties to terrorists doesn't mean he's dangerous. In fact, we have no evidence that the global terrorist network is still a threat at all...except for 9/11 and all the other attacks across the world since then.

War For Oil! : This war isn't really about terrorism or weapons of mass destruction, it's about oil like every big war America fought in during the last century! Well...except for WW1, WW2, Vietnam, and Korea... but the Gulf War was all about oil! Of course, Iraq only supplies 2.1% of America's oil and Afghanistan doesn't supply any...but "everyone" says it's about oil so it must be somehow or another!

We'll Destabilize the Middle-East : It's common knowledge that the 'Arab Street' will immediately overthrow their leaders if Muslims are harmed anywhere across the world, no matter what the reason may be. Of course, we've gotten off lucky so far since the 'Arab Street' didn't erupt when Israel bombed an Iraqi nuke site, when Israel invaded Lebanon, when Israel 'invaded' the "disputed territories" about 500 times, when Reagan bombed Libya, when the US invaded Iraq, when the Serbs were slaughtering Bosnian Muslims, when the US invaded Afghanistan, when the US bombed through Ramadan, etc, etc. But this time the 'Arab Street' is REALLY SERIOUS!!!

DJATWORK · Post by **DJATWORK** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 4:05 pm

On 2002-09-28 12:25, lifechanger wrote:
This is a cultural/religious war that was declared by muslims and their fellow travellers....

Do you really think that?

Palestina/Israel is it too?

Do you think any country will spend U$S 200.000.000.000 just for RELIGION?
That is an investment....
The war here is like a busines...

DJATWORK · Post by **DJATWORK** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 4:49 pm

On 2002-09-28 02:35, Spirit wrote:
Isn't Nestor from Argentina ? With their present economic woes that'd be reason enough to be depressed. Add a gloomy world outlook to the mix and, well . . .

I Think that Nestor is from Chile.

I´m from Argentina and I can tell you that we are in the worse moment of our history...

Let me tell you too, that this is unfortunelly a world crisis, and we are worse than others, who are not good at all...

In latin America 40% people is under the poverty line...
50% people cant read or write, even ADULT people...

IN the US since 2000 there is a decay in the stock exchange ... In a few months that will be 3 years of loosing...
The last time that this happens in the history, was the begginning of the 2nd WWar...

IN Argentina we have 25 of unemployment... In the US I think it is 6%, and the us people isnt happy with that... In germany is %10, and they feel the same way...

Every day you can see at CNN how the international corps leaves in the street 20.000 people, specially the telecomunications or technology ones...

I think that we are in the 4th. capitalysm crisis... the first two was solved with wars...

how can we solve this one?

DJATWORK!

lifechanger · Post by **lifechanger** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 5:24 pm

There are reason's for naming the Evil Regimes across the World....

Let me see ...

Syria - A Baathist nightmare ruled by the son of a dictator who saw nothing wrong with using bulldozers to massacre 10,000 Sunni Muslims in Hama back in 1982. Also a key sponsor of Hamas.

Lebanon - A joint Syrian-Iranian satellite state.

Libya - A perfect example of what happens when the inmates gain control of the assylum.

Saudi Arabia - The incubator and chief fundraiser of Sunni Islamic terrorism through its export of Wahhabism and one of the most repressive societies on the planet.

Palestinian Authority - A kleptocratic pseudo-state that makes Nazi Germany look appealing by contrast.

Iran - The world headquarters of Terrorism, Inc.

North Korea - The most repressive society on the planet.

AFTER Iraq...is it WWIII ("The Cold War"), or WWIV....The Religious War to End all Religious Wars?

[ This Message was edited by: lifechanger on 2002-09-28 18:28 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 5:52 pm

for lifechanger.

dear friend (it's not sarcastic, i swear)
you show to be very convinced of what you say, well, discussion it's a bit sterile with
those who "need" to be certain, and i admit this point could be heard also from you towards some "dirt" lefties,
but something i must answer when you:
1)pretend to know what do i think
(i am a dirt lefty, not communist, but after reading your mails, more and more dirt lefty),
2)pretend that pacifists are with saddam
3)say that i'm so stupid that i prefer that we all in the west die than make war to the evil forces.

my answer is this:

quote from lifechanger:In many Arab countries, Islamic peace is maintained by imposing the death penalty upon any Muslim converting to another religion

i think that death penalty(any type) is the first thing that makes the difference between a decently civilized country and a barbaric and decadent underculture.

so i think that the very small number of american voters, and therefore the smaller part of american supporters of death penalty
incourage an optimistic wiew of americn population, although the quality of democracy
doesn't seem to be sufficient to my liberal standards,
but i wouldn't allow the current governing class of your country to even talk or spend an our with any children i could have.

so regarding death penalty, mr. bush and mr. saddam could be considered pic-nic friends.

quote from lifechanger, making a caricatural lefty argumentation:How Can We Invade Saddam When He Used To Be Our Friend? : We must force these right-wing zealots to realize that relationships between nations are NEVER are allowed to change
well, for what i remember, you've put that crap (saddam) where he is, and you left him untouched when you could wipe him off easily
during desert storm. and if your strategy analysts have thought that embargo would detronize him, you are pretty f* off when you will need them really...(9/11 teaches...)

quote...:That's why you're so strongly against replacing the dictator who has starved, gassed, tortured, and oppressed so many of his own people -- you may not want to phrase it exactly like that, but you get the idea.

well he has done that, and he is a verminous individual, but as i can remember the only thing that is close to that infamous
behaviour, in western world (that is known, of course), have been the secret nuclear tests that have been performed for the glory of american science on american unaware population some decades ago, and when this stinky "final product of alimentation process" came out, american political establishment was forced to ask public excuses. if you want to excuse them...

quote .....: Never Admit That You Are Helping Terrorists And Dictators : Act offended if anyone claims you are helping dictators and terrorists by opposing killing, capturing, or hindering them in any significant way. Sure that may be the actual RESULT of doing what you're suggesting, but INTENTIONS, not results, are what have to be considered.

i could say to you:

Never Admit That You Are Helping Terrorists And Dictators ,you feel offended if anyone claims you are helping dictators and terrorists with killing, capturing, or hindering anyone but them in any significant way. Sure that may be the actual INTENTION of doing what you're suggesting, but RESULTS, not intentions, are what have to be considered.

to be clear, i think that your governants
are involved in what's happening in a heavyer
and less clean way that you show to accept,
and if this thought is so diffused all over the world, is because many things that costed life, democracy and happynes to millions out of the u.s., have been clearly perceived as caused by the u.s.

9/11/2001 has been an infamous day and i felt really upset and couldn't play a single note for a week after that, but please try to understand that all over the world the same sense of disgust has been felt also for
9/11/1973, and if you don't remember, do a research.

please don't think that "you" in these answers is related to you personally, i think that you are a nice person that wants to discuss with people like me, so expressing some appreciation of my mental capacity, otherwise you wouldn't bother here,
and the same thing i think of you, and i appreciate your being still involved in a thread in wich you are not with the majority.

have nice time and let's hope for the best.

[ This Message was edited by: alfonso on 2002-09-28 18:59 ]

lifechanger · Post by **lifechanger** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:02 pm

It appears as if their culture can be found thriving in a lab petri dish.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:35 pm

when the atom bomb was tested,they put live G.I.s in front of them to find out how close a soldier could remain effective.this is no secret.anymore.someday, 911 (the american telephone number for emergency services)will not be as secret.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:28 pm

On 2002-09-28 22:35, garyb wrote:
when the atom bomb was tested,they put live G.I.s in front of them to find out how close a soldier could remain effective.this is no secret.anymore.someday, 911 (the american telephone number for emergency services)will not be as secret.

A man who has my thinking,and can see that it's all to do with class systems and not cultures,religions etc.Look at the Jamaicans who are looked down by Africans because they are slave Folk!can you believe that?Its all about me me me.get wise guys we are just statistics to them.Ye Saddam too!You think he loves his people.
The more people love and care the less power they want.Remember that.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:49 pm

I went to the protests today in Washington DC, It was supposed to be about the world bank and the IMF but the many groups had different things to protest about such as the war on Iraq and the issue of a homeland for the Palistinians. I thought the lack of focus hurt all the protesters, but I guess people just need an outlet to bitch about whatever bothers them. What I want to know is how the hell did folk music become and stay the official and only music of protests??? There was this angry young asian girl singing about coal miners of all things. Some people forget we are not living in the 60's anymore. Everywhere I go I am subjected to other peoples idiotic bad music. Silence would be sooo much better but I guess some people have empty heads so they need something to put inside them even if it is 100% crapola. Thank God the grocery store no longer plays musak versions of 70's hits but I'm not sure the "alternative" music they play now is any improvement. As far as I am concerned alternative is a giant step backward in music evollution. Where the F*%k are the synthesizers? That is what I want to know! In conclusion I have one thing to say:

I HATE GUITAR AND VOCALS!

and you know what Nestor... if civilization comes to an end things will be much better. bacteria will survive and evolve. Let's hope that the next so called intelligent life will do a better job than we did.

DJATWORK · Post by **DJATWORK** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 5:08 am

On 2002-09-28 18:24, lifechanger wrote:
There are reason's for naming the Evil Regimes across the World....
[ This Message was edited by: lifechanger on 2002-09-28 18:28 ]

You know what...
One of the absolutist simbols is that the DICTATORS mixes religion and politics, good and wrong, and make a fervoreous feeling of patriotism...

Like Osama Bin Laden does... Like Saddam Hussein does, and finally like George W Bush does.

All of them makes civilians attacks "in the name of good" and against the "evil"...

Lifechanger, I feel deep fear reading your posts.
Fanatism make people loose the gift of seeing.

I hope the US NATION (not government, is not the same) could really see what is happening and what could happens if this war continues.

May be you don´t like what I say because "im a foreigner"... Read Norman Mailer...

Luis...