PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

JoPo wrote:Did you think about the guy new in Scope... He'll buy the mod IV, thinking he'll have the latest version... But what can you do with just mod IV ?

Not much ! It is not very fair..
I was sure it was not going to be an update price : NOBODY will buy mod IV alone !! You cannot do much things with just mod IV ! So everybody must have at least Mod II or III to be able to build something... So SC would sale ONLY update prices because even the ones who don't have any modular must buy Mod II or III and then update to IV.

SC has not any other choice to sale it full price.

No clue what you're talking about dude... Mod4 comes with Mod3+extra Mod4 modules. So someone who didn't buy Mod2/3 can buy Mod4 and have everything... but people who paid for the development of Mod2/3 have to pay the same. I bought quite a few plugins which were subsequently bundled free with everything - ProPack (remember this? ), Vectron, STS5000, Prodyssey and more - which didn't annoy me at all. But not giving an upgrade price for Mod4 is nothing but a 'fuck you' to me.

Next to nothing - yep, I'm happy with what I've got. My point is it's a losing situation for SC because it means I'm now off their radar and they can't sell me any plugins.

Well first off you haven't paid Sonic Core a dime for the earlier mods. You have paid Creamware. They are gone.

Second, losing your money isn't nececarily a loosing situation. it's a risk, and has probably been analyzed quite thourougly. IF it means sales is dropping more than 50% than what they would have been if sold at 98 euro, then "yes", but costs of logistics and support is double if we both buy it for 98 compared to just me buying it for 198.

You should also consider those using modular these days to be quite hooked by it, seeing this as a welcome addon. these most probably have mod 3 allready, and buy it if it is 98 or 198. those not using it will probably not see what the big deal is, not all of them would bother putting 98 euro for the upgrade. maybe some start using the earlier modulars to see what the fuss is about anyway. that way they either hate the consept or start exploring it and actually feel a need for flexor or mod IV and happily fork out an extra hundred for the extra modules

So if this become the situation, the real "loss" of sold units might be down to, say, a pessimistic 20%? that way, losing your money makes them a nice profit

OK point taken, it's speculation either way to say if it's a good move or bad move in business terms. Only time will tell. I've made my thoughts known to Holger anyway, so fuck it I'm done.

I suppose we all have our own thresholds when it comes to what we find acceptable. I guess for me this was the trigger to get off the train. It's cool, I got off at a nice place For everyone else who's still on it, I hope you have a nice journey.

next to nothing wrote:Well first off you haven't paid Sonic Core a dime for the earlier mods. You have paid Creamware. They are gone.

That's how I see it myself. Most people who purchased mod 2 or 3 were buying it from the old company, who to be fair to SC weren't developing the platform for long periods of time. However, since SC took over they HAVE been developing the platform & they are a new company. They've tried to be fair IMO. If offering Scope 5 as a free upgrade to those who purchased Scope 4.5 from Creamware isn't a sign of SC trying to be fair to CW customers, I don't know what is.

Funnily enough Dark, I seem to remember you being one of the guys telling me I was wrong to suggest that 600 euro for an M/S EQ for Scope was too much money, yet now you're saying that your pissed about not getting almost 100 new modular modules as an upgrade offer instead of paying the 198 euro asking price? Doesn't quite stack up if you ask me!

Hi Shroomz,

Argh, I wasn't gonna reply any more to this topic but you've forced me

the MS EQ was a new product, it didn't have any relation to anything previous.

Mod4 is not a new product, it's Mod3 with some extra modules. That is the difference for me. Whether its 3 new modules or 100, doesn't make any difference to me. SC wouldn't have Mod4 if CW didn't develop it, and the Mod3 users basically paid CW to develop it. Some gesture towards existing users would be nice

Anyway to be frank, my problem with this situation isn't really the money... if SC gave me personally a special offer I wouldn't use it. It should be available to everyone. My concern is that SC seems to have no marketing nous, they seem to be making it up as they go along in a fairly shambolic fashion (apparently a 98EU upgrade offer was available initially but then withdrawn - go figure ). This doesn't make me optimistic for the future of the platform. And I'm reluctant to invest in something I don't think is gonna succeed. I know I haven't paid SC a dime.... yet. But I want to pay them for a fair deal, I'm not gonna treat them like a charity. Sorry to say it but there it is. I've supported CW/SC pretty loyally over the years, but it sadly ends here.

darkrezin wrote:Hi Shroomz,

Argh, I wasn't gonna reply any more to this topic but you've forced me

the MS EQ was a new product, it didn't have any relation to anything previous.

Mod4 is not a new product, it's Mod3 with some extra modules. That is the difference for me. Whether its 3 new modules or 100, doesn't make any difference to me.

Hi mate,

Sorry for dragging you back in...

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this I think because mod4 is indeed a new product in my eyes. Yes, it's a pack of modules that run in a modular shell, but in my eyes the whole Scope platform is a grand modular shell & that particular EQ was simply a nice module that's designed to co-exist with other modules..... I'm sure the time taken to develop the new mod4 was equal, if not more than the EQ...

To add some more confusion, I think some of the guys who developped the Mod 2 / Mod III are now the guys who lead SC.
Nobody knows how long they sweat to design Mod 1, Mod 2 and then Mod III ...
If Mod IV was just a bugfixed relooked Mod III you could call it an upgrade but there are 97 extra modules ...

Whether the Mod IV is an upgrade or a new plug is not really the more important. The question is what amount of money you are ready to pay for a bunch of 100 new modules including the great filters available in Pro-One, Pro12 and Minimax ...
I know theese are "just" (!!!) modular adapted already available atom, but they provide something really new for the Mod IV.
Besides, the CZ Osc and some other stuff like chaos LFO are complete new dev.

Mod 2 is probably available on any scope system ...
Mod III is probably also widely spread because of its inclusion in the Synth'n'Sampler Pack.

Mod IV price is the same as most of SC individual plug-in.

And the most important for me is that Mod IV IS a GOOD surprise (I didn't expect them to release such thing so soon with the work they still have on Xite-1, Scope 5.0 and the Solaris ...)

CheerZ

Deleted - I don't want to rant - Sorry

I will be buying ModIV. It's a good deal no matter how you frame it.

Compared to hobbling together some lame-ass modular/Reaktor-type VST's or buying Omnisphere (somewhat overrated IMO - and I own it).

The upside and longevity of the value of ModIV is much more apparent than anything else out there that I know of.

The community will be building more and more presets, and more and more modules will be designed - so it's a no-brainer to me.

Greg

Yep but once again, when you paid for Mod III, you paid it to CW not to SC.

Designing modular modules is time consuming, just ask the SDK user about this.

The number of modules do not make the value of the pack: just remember Mod 1 had only 80 modules.
I agree with ShroomZ that you can see Mod IV as a new plug: it provide you everything needed to emulate an old CZ-synth sound !!!

I would love to see it sold for 99 € and would buy it quicker then but they also have to make money some time to time to keep on maintaining the Scope platform. They could just have decided to only support their new Xite-1 and not the PCI based board they probably do not sale a lot under SC brand. So I just think they are fair to user community.

CheerZ

Guys,

you are here from a longer time than me but I am astonished that nobody did already state that there probably will be "summer" and "winter" deals in 2010.
If you think price is too expensive now (but I get the feeling it is more about people having followed the "path" and not being proposed the deal, particularly those who followed Scope 4.5), then wait for a few more months:
you'll get your "deal", as this has been kept as a tradition, happily...

my 0.02 cents

Sorry about the above posts
I was demoing Mod 4 again today.
F*** it - I'll get it next month with Flexor 3 - then I'll have the whole bloody lot
No more ranting

There Ya' Go............Instead of nibblin' away at their profit, get it and then complain about the free Mod IV to Mod IV 2.0 upgrade later............sure beats Beavering down the meger money tree at S|C.

Yeah fuck it, I'm bored of ranting too It doesn't really matter what I think in this case... as I said we all have our thresholds of what we think is acceptable - SC crossed mine here but that's life. We're indeed gonna have to agree to disagree - there is simply no way I can accept that Mod4 is a new product.

Shroomz - congrats on your new phaser btw, hope to get time to check it out soon

Yeah, I agree Jimmy - I've seen the light

Perhaps there are some shitty VSTs I can sell on KVR...hmmm...hmmm.......

Yepp....that was back in 2009 though...
It's a brave new world....

Stardust, I haven't been following the forum that closely recently so forgive me if I'm wrong here, but do you have some kind of vendetta with Jimmy? If so, what's the point?

Nah... I don't think so........there were others here would said there was an upgrade but S/C says there isn't....Anyway, if you got an Xite-1 there will be cheaper deals and I think they will bend the prices a bit more
Anyway, I'm ordering the stuff..getting into the lessons..and it's done

All those new modules ARE worth 200EU. If anyone got in on a temporary deal, then good for them. I would say that in at least one case, it is well deserved.

Anyhow, thank you for the beaver shot JV

+1
thanx..a voice of reason..