PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

JoPo wrote:

kylie wrote:well, that explains it all
if there was another official statement that the xite-1 z-link will ignore bus power if supplied, this could mean the idea of hooking xite to pci via z-link reborn

If I understand well what you say, you want to connect Xite to scope pci via z-link directly ? If yes, i don't think it is possible and you may damage the hardware... You should ask SC first..!

1) yes, I'd like to, or let's say I would think about it if I had a xite
2) I don't see why not, provided the circumstances are as described (xite would be able to ignore z-link power, would not supply power itself, and would not be damaged if hooked to a device that supplies it)
3) I already did, but no response so far.

2) I don't see why not, provided the circumstances are as described (xite would be able to ignore z-link power, would not supply power itself, and would not be damaged if hooked to a device that supplies it)

Have you considered, that signals are sent with a certain current too, and you don't know about the wiring scheme ("pin configaration") of the Z-link on the cards and Xite and on the A16u and the 2496 ......

Immanuel wrote:2) I don't see why not, provided the circumstances are as described (xite would be able to ignore z-link power, would not supply power itself, and would not be damaged if hooked to a device that supplies it)

Have you considered, that signals are sent with a certain current too, and you don't know about the wiring scheme ("pin configaration") of the Z-link on the cards and Xite and on the A16u and the 2496 ......

you are right, I don't know. all my knowledge is based on some vague details given by CW. the main idea is still (imho):

- they use the standard ieee1394 basic protocol stack
- they run proprietary extensions on top of that basic stack to make it carry 16 channel audio and clocking and such
- they use the basic firewire signaling and current scheme for not having to develop their own chips for it
- they use bus power as normal firewire does, too, but they missed out to make scope cards ignoring it or at least the basic protocol does not implement a mechanism to tell the supplying device not to send power during the negotiation phase (something that ordinary firewire surely has, because bus power would fry normal firewire to firewire connections as well, if there was no mechanism to prevent this, which is, although I not exactly know, most probably implemented in the protocol stack)

I still see a certain chance for this to work, but I would in no case recommend to test it, until explicitly corfirmed by SC, of course. I still have no answer from them, and there is still no xite hardware manual like there is for the pci cards.

stardust wrote:Right, we need a guinea pig to try.
Who has too much money and is keen on risking a xite and a scope PCI ?

if there is still some money left, one could hook 2 xites together and see what happens. ultimate knowledge for about 10k eur. I know few occasions where perfect clarity is that cheap...

stardust wrote:Right, we need a guinea pig to try.
Who has too much money and is keen on risking a xite and a scope PCI ?

oink, oink...

...well... Xite and PCI running concurrently here for months now - just not as merged extensions of each other.
TWO fully operational Scope systems ARE running here at the same time via ADAT - to the point where I almost don't really personally care about z-link anymore.

Greg

I don't know wich advantage there would be to link xite with pci board via z-link cause I may do it via ADAT and it works very well without to take any risk.
And linking via z-link looks really risky, so I'm not going to try. The link via ADAT offers me 16 stereo canals wich are enough to my system :
I'm keeping my pci boards with my both luna to have 16 analog stereo I/O wich I send to the ADAT via a mixer to the xite. If I need more analog I/O one day, I'll think about buying the A16.
The xite has 3 analog in : 2 for microphone (in front of the rack) & 1 stereo with XLR plug. It is much enough for me.

JoPo wrote:I don't know wich advantage there would be to link xite with pci board via z-link cause I may do it via ADAT and it works very well without to take any risk.

z-link is 24/96.

S/MUX ADAT can manage this, but you lose half the channels.

...But if you're running Scope (and any external digital devices) at 16-bit 44kHz, this isn't an issue.

Hhhh..

I may not understand well Sharc meaning... I allways understand less well people who speak english because of there natural language...

First , what is S / MUX ?
Then, I don't understand why you are saying that I'm losing half the channels. There is 16 ADAT channel input in the xite and I'm using them all for the both lunas boxes : 8 each or 4 stereo each. I don't see what i'm losing.
And the A16 is 24/96 , just like the lunas, the only difference is that the lunas may be connected via z-link and the A16 may be connected also via ADAT. Anyway, I'm at 24 bit, 44khz..

J'ai bon ?

JoPo wrote:First , what is S / MUX ?

a method of multiplexing adat channels to get sampling rates beyond 48kHz. it was not part af the original adat specification and was developed by sonorus (a company that once sold a card named stud/io 16, being in fact a cw tdat16 pci, or better, vice versa.). there was no field reserved in the adat data stream for such purpose, so both ends must be set to s/mux mode manually.

Then, I don't understand why you are saying that I'm losing half the channels. There is 16 ADAT channel input in the xite and I'm using them all for the both lunas boxes : 8 each or 4 stereo each. I don't see what i'm losing.

if you use 48kHz or 44.1kHz you don't lose anything, since all the channels will be available via adat. if you raise the sampling rate to let's say 96kHz, the channel will be split into 2 48kHz streams multipelexed over 2 adat channels. the receiving end will demultiplex them. but half of the adat channels is lost. there are even implementations (apogee, I think) that multiplex 4 channels to get 192kHz via adat.

And the A16 is 24/96 , just like the lunas, the only difference is that the lunas may be connected via z-link and the A16 may be connected also via ADAT. Anyway, I'm at 24 bit, 44khz..

z-link is capable of running all 8/16 channels (8 per cable) with 24/96. that's the difference.

Thanks for those explaination... I get it.
I do not feel too much concerned, working in 24bits / 48 khz.

I already guessed...
but then, you asked

I would like to connect scope pci and xite-1 thru Z-link also.

unless explicitly stated by S|C: don't connect a XITE-1 and a pci card via Z-Link.

JGR wrote:I would like to connect scope pci and xite-1 thru Z-link also.

S/C has stated that Z-link connection between PCI and Xite is a problem due to cable lengths and other issues.
They may still be working on this capability, but I'm not sure it will work until power and other issues are resolved.

In the meantime, connecting PCI to Xite via ADAT works.
Running PCI and Xite Scope environment in parallel does work (as long as you resolve clock host/slave configuration, etc.).

Greg

I don't suppose 1 of the 4 or 5 TDM connectors on the top edge of my SCOPE Professional card could be wired via ribbon cable terminated with a 25-pin d-sub and plugged into the XTDM of the xite-1?

I think that's how multiple SCOPE cards 'talk' to each other.

Maybe just a dumb idea - I'm just not sure what else that XTDM port would be useful for if not connecting to other 'TDM' devices.

I asked the gents about this a while ago, and they said that it probably wouldn't work.

Not sure though, so maybe email SC and see what they say.

Greg

Hi people.
I emailed Sonic Core tech support as suggested, and got this reply.

it is not possible to connect TDM with XTDM, but what we can do, is to build an additional outboard unit which converts the XTDM into 4 ADAT IOs.

This would mean you have 70 IOs.
This is already in discussion.

What do think about it?

Regards,
Ralf

Sounds like Sonic Core are listening to their users (yes?).

If I read this correctly, that would expand the Xite to 48 channels of ADAT, plus another 16 channels of Z-Link (ADAT or analogue via the A16 Ultra) plus the stereo analogue and digital I/O on the unit itself.

thumbs up!

sweet!

Greg

Yup, that sounds extremely useful. So + 1 for that here

And thanks for asking SC about it