Happy Birthday U.S.A.

[garyb]

how in the hell did "health care" and "insurance" get so inextricably linked together? doesn't anyone realize this is brand new? 40 years ago, hardly anyone had health insurance in the USA and we still had family doctors!

[garyb]

The cost of health care is a major issue, and so is leaving small business alone so they can grow and hire people............these issues are not rocket science. Stop taking lobbyist money and start passing laws that benfit the citizens..................pretty simple.

yep.

[braincell]

Brilliant, let's go back to they things were 40 years ago. Spoken like a true conservative.

[valis]

Drop the conservative/liberal b.s. already braincell, that line of discussion isn't succeeding here if you haven't noticed, and if you're really in need of that just tune into something on the AM radio band.

how in the hell did "health care" and "insurance" get so inextricably linked together?

What's even more ironic is how we're having all these discussions about health care, insurance and the ripoff artists who form the 'elite' in our world...in a thread titled "Happy Birthday USA".

[netguyjoel]

you read my mind..+1

[braincell]

Let's get back to the subject. There is nothing to celebrate since this nation was created by murdering millions of native Americans then on the backs of African slaves.

[garyb]

once again, quick with the rhetoric, only close with the history.

this country was built on black, white, native and asian slaves, just like Europe. none of this has anything to do with doing the right thing.

we already have a law and document to protect us all from these shennanigans, it's called the Constitution and it limits how oppressive the government can be. why anyone would want to cancel that out is beyond me....

actually braincell, i'd say you are the REAL conservative. you want to return humans to a condition of subjects of the state/soveriegn. real progress would be getting over that idea. the USA's idea of government is the new, forward thinking model. the model you are following is CALLED forward-thinking, but it's just a return to fuedalism and i have the words of the bankers saying EXACTLY that...

[braincell]

Why don't you ask the people getting raped in prison for selling a little weed about human rights and oppression? The constitution is so fair we have our own citizens tortured every day not to mention millions we murdered outside our country and all of it is "constitutional."

[garyb]

no, it's NOT constitutional. that's the problem.

[braincell]

Well you know what, the constitution is great but it was written a long time ago and with few revisions. Unlike most people, I don't think it is perfect or the word of god and it needs a major overhaul!!!

[valis]

You're missing his point. The constitution isn't the problem here, as not even all of its signatories were following its ideals throughout their entire careers. But the powers at play in our nation today, we might talk about 1st & 4th amendment rights here & there but overall we're living in a more & more 'fascist' system where corporations are being increasingly used by the 'powers behind the scenes' to get things done. And we have people who have entire careers in national politics that never hold a publicly elected office (lobbyists & other 'special interest' group representatives) shape our dialogue and foreign affairs, and the politicians are bought & paid for to represent the 'rights' and interests of these non-elected 'representatives' and the corporations (and families) behind them.

The ideals set out in our constitution were (supposedly) there expressly to PREVENT this from happening, so laying blame at its feet and being ready to turn a new page with the rhetoric you espouse one can only wonder how much closer to the 'end game' that will take things...eh?

[dawman]

We have zero oversight on 24 Czars, and the Federal Reserve cannot even be checked into by Congress. It has become a 4th Branch Of Our Government.

I would really love to see what The Great Lakes Czar does....?
For a couple hundred large as a yearly salary, they should have some oversight.
Especially when 18 million gets spent on a website....
Hell SpaceF does that for free I think..

[netguyjoel]

I got 99 problems, but BC ain't one.... weak.

[garyb]

Well you know what, the constitution is great but it was written a long time ago and with few revisions. Unlike most people, I don't think it is perfect or the word of god and it needs a major overhaul!!!

ok, but shouldn't you know more about it before you criticize or replace it?

[siriusbliss]

Well you know what, the constitution is great but it was written a long time ago and with few revisions. Unlike most people, I don't think it is perfect or the word of god and it needs a major overhaul!!!

ok, but shouldn't you know more about it before you criticize or replace it?

+1

G

[braincell]

Eliminate the second amendment!

[garyb]

and leave all the power to the corrupted? NEVER!

[braincell]

Somehow I trust "the corrupt" more than the wacko minute men and the NRA. Having them in charge would be hell on earth. You may feel powerful with a gun but I think gun owners are just cowards. When are you planning your takeover of the United States? That seems to be your plan. By the way, that is treason and a serious crime.

[garyb]

i keep defending the constitution which is the source of legitimacy of the United States. YOU are the one trying to undermine it, and overthrow the government to establish your WORLD government. you continuously call for the end of the constitution, the abolishment of the states and an ILLEGAL federal dictatorship that will even dictate a human being's choice for "healthcare" and medicine and will confiscate possesions without just due process and compensation. YOU sir, are the treasonous one.

i forgive you though, because you are only repeating things that you've heard from "experts"...

[valis]

Even in a system that was functioning without 'complications' behind the scenes, the financial sector can afford to outbid their regulators when it comes to hiring the brightest & best minds. Even with regulators that are doing their best the bankers have the time and patience to prepare things (or take advantage of what was prepared) decades in advance. There may be a few individuals who have higher ideals and aren't so easily bought off, but everyone does at least a few boneheaded things in their youth. All the better to let them collect government pay anyway, there's no reason to put them on your own payroll if pressure can still be applied at the appropriate times.

The problem is systemic though, in that (imo) it is fueled as much by human nature as it is by the power elite.

Bringing the current mortage & banking situation into focus, think of the 'financially challenged' people who were offered deals they couldn't believe to get into a brand new home. Sloppy financial habits in the 'lower classes' don't always breed enough wisdom to see the 'adjustable' bottom line, but getting a boatload of new mortgage signups sure does help the liquidity of the 'associates' helping our hapless mortgage signups to pay back into their own success at work (and bonuses?) The bank's stock price goes up as well and so what's not to like? The players sitting closer to the top know full well they can take all of this fantastic increase in housing value and swap it around to earn money off of the differences in the buy/sell value of these 'credit swaps', another fantastic creation of de-regulation (more top-level govt. longterm 'scheming' by lobbyists?)

And supposedly now this house of cards falls apart, but the pattern is the same as the rest of what we've discussed here. Government gets to gain more control over the lives of the people it 'represents', the financial market creates more 'debt' to fuel more consolidation of power at that side....and the boys at the top can throw their friends a bone to help them buy these assets when the 'bailout plans' inevitably come forth. Almost as if it was according to plan, siriusbliss's references to the Hegelian dialectic are apropos...

Of course this easier to see with hindsight, the trick is how to tune into people who see these things coming down the pipe. When the dot-boom was at its peak the 'failing' auto industry was handing out vehicles hand over fist to fuel their production increases (expansion being worth more on the stock market than the debt their finance arms were taking on.) How many were 'stuck' with a fancy ride 2-3 'levels' above where their mmorlg (massively multiplayer real-life game) stats really are? How many 'tech' workers though they'd found bliss when they were sitting on a pile of stock & got to enjoy material 'pleasures' to boot? Swapping jobs faster than you can even learn to remember your new work contact info for higher & higher 'stock options'. Turn down a fancy new house with a mortgage that's hard to believe? I can only imagine the reaction of young inexperienced consumers who are happy that they'll still be able to afford their HD wonderland iToys on a pauper's income WHILE owning a home. Which brings us full circle.

All of this driven by changes in legislation & 'de-regulation' of financial entities so they could speculate where they otherwise would have been unable to tread.

Putting the blame on the 'constitution' seems like the ultimate cop-out btw.

If you ask me though the desire to have more material wealth & external power is present at all levels in that equation. And the responsibility exists at the personal, local, regional and national level. Wanting to shirk the problem onto the backs of the 'poor' who 'got loans they should have known better than to get' or to 'nationalize everything' because states obviously can't handle something...etc...all of this speaks of a lack of willingness to take responsibility on yourself.