PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

chriskorff wrote:... Though you have to wonder, if he was a dedicated Scope user, would his opinion of the Plugiator been tarnished by the fact that UseAudio have been really quite cheeky in under-cutting Sonic Core? Quite possibly.

True. I guess you could also argue that pointing out SC's opposition to InDSP's 'use of Creamware's technology' doesn't necessarily project a bad image. Depends what way you look at it I suppose.

Personally i feel it reads as not just anti-Creamware, but by inference anti-Sonic Core. "Look, UseAudio give you all this for £350, whilst SC are trying to rip you off with individual ASBs" is how it reads. No mention of Scope cards or the forthcoming XITE-1. Some editorial balance would have been nice - that's what editors are for isn't it? i may have to review whether i can still buy this expensive and over-inflated magazine in this time of recession.

Oh, and i had Pulsar2 and PowerSampler cards working in my Mac for years (and straight away), so i would say he's a bit of a plank to bring this up in the review.

chriskorff wrote: It's unfortunate that people without an eSub can't read the rest of the review

Don't be expecting in new subscriptions from he this forum .

I never joined this forum in the hope of getting new subscriptions, and if you're trying to rally support for some kind of SOS boycott on the basis that one of our authors doesn't like Scope very much, well... I can't stop you and I won't try. Best of luck, pal.

All I expect (indeed, hope) from this forum is the kind of excellent help I've had here already in getting Scope to work, and for that I'm very grateful. This is a forum I use from home, because I use Scope cards at home, and as far as I'm concerned it has fuck all to do with my job...

...UNLESS people here accuse either me or any of the other five people (I'm not joking) in editorial of not doing a good enough job, or somehow being persuaded to write good/bad things because we were paid to. That offends me personally because regurgitating press releases is easy, but I work fucking hard at my job, as does everyone else in the building (all 17 of them).

I've thought about this post a while now, and I've really tried to avoid saying this, but I can't: do you ever read the older (free) articles on the SOS website? Or browse the SOS forum? And do you ever wonder which Angel Of Pro Audio it was that put it there? Or how The Patron Saint Of Recording Technology managed to fund her?

Nothing personal Mr A, it's just that there's a prevailing attitude of "It's free, great, it'll always be there and I don't need to spend any money!" (cf. pirate music/music software downloads) that really isn't helping anyone a blind bit.

I hope I've said enough, because I really don't want to say any more about SOS on this forum.

Cheers,

Chris

i've bought SOS since at least 1986 i think - it was so long ago i'm not sure of the year. i rarely use the internet version as i have most of the stuff i want to keep in original hard copy. i am actually a big supporter of SOS over certain other publications as their 'reviews' are usually barely a page of text, two pages of photos and some industry spiel. i won't name them but they are not the future of music tech magazines that i want to see . i even give money to forums such as this one to keep going, so i am not in the "it's free, it'll always be there" camp.

chriskorff wrote:I never joined this forum in the hope of getting new subscriptions, and if you're trying to rally support for some kind of SOS boycott on the basis that one of our authors doesn't like Scope very much, well... I can't stop you and I won't try. Best of luck, pal.

i thank you for your professional distance that you've maintained over the years and in no way was implying that you ever had or would try and get subscriptions. Boycott? No, just reviewing my own finances and what i really need to be purchasing.

Just promise me you won't get Gordon to review XITE-1 when it comes out.

Best.

this is not an indictment of SOS, not by any means! SOS is a fine publication, at least as far as gear mags go. period.

the opening backstory has the smeel of a certain man, whom i won't mention, for politics' sake...

also, i don't care how knowledgable Mr. Reid is, he wrote some inflammatory print that could really hurt S/C when S/C has done nothing to hurt him. he may be VERY knowledgable, but he doesn't know everything, or he'd know that Scope DEFINITELY works.

Mr Arkadin wrote:promise me you won't get Gordon to review XITE-1 when it comes out.

+1

sharc wrote:Some of the comments did seem a bit below the belt re: Creamware's 'inflated claims, low-end, cheap' etc.

It's those comments that I have an issue with. It seems like a really cheap shot to be sniping at Creamware & Sonic Core in that sort of manner in an article that's not even about a Creamware or Sonic Core product, but a product of their competitors.

sharc wrote:Also as much as it might be juicy insider gossip I don't think the following was necessary:

There’s no love lost between inDSP and Sonic Core, and Holger Drenkelfort of Sonic Core has gone on record to say that his company does not agree with inDSP’s use of Creamware’s technology.

No I don't think it was necessary either. Gordon Reid shouldn't have mentioned Creamware or Sonic Core at all unless it was just to clarify the history of how inDSP spawned & where their plugiator plugins actually originated.

sharc wrote:bad press for SonicCore before they've even got their product out the door is a cause for concern.

Call me a paranoid conspiracy nut, but the timing certainly doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

Or we're just overprotective of our Scope cards?

As for Gordon Reid, it sounds like he holds a grudge about his Elektra experiences and his statements about the SC/CW situation occupied the first 5 paragraphs of the article. Since I'm in the US and don't currently subscribe to SoS, I won't be able to actually read the full article for another month or so asthe local "Geetarr" shop just barely got January on the shelf. So I can't comment on the rest of the article (but I will probably remember that intro when I see Gordon Reid's name).

Personally I like SoS the best out of the 'music tech' gear rags, and I have several times recommended as being less influenced by ad dollars & product placement, and as current as any magazine can be that isn't made of just electrons. In fact the only other magazine I make sure I get every month is Tape Op, but that one gets mailed to me for "Free" so runs afoul of the 'free stuff' sentiments above...

valis wrote:Or we're just overprotective of our Scope cards?

I bet yes...
I've taken some distance with any form of forums and web activity this last year (due to being extremly busy with setting up a media production company) and my (frequent) lurking here sometimes makes me smile. You guys are all BELIEVERS of SC and the DSP mantra.

Hare Sharcsna, hare Creamwa hare hare ! Hare Rama.

so? is that a reason to be trashed?

it sure is a popular way of living these days, ridiculing others to feel like one isn't ridiculous himself. Gordon Reid was out of line in the first few paragraphs, he also was UNtruthful, except in that he couldn't use his electra card. since others seem to be using them, possibly he's not as slick as he'd like to think. S/C NEVER did him any hurt. he shouldn't trash them, period.

Hola GAry, don't take it personally, I'm also part of this whole audio circus. But the fact is Scope is an aging platform that still can (will) be on the edge and has its part of admirators and detractors. Nothing religious in it but let's admit that Z is a very pro Scope community that is at the limit of sectarism sometimes.
But hey I still post here and I like the thinking behind keeping a workhorse because it's reliable and good sounding. It is against the economical prominent rule of "the latest is the greatest", and I like this !
I haven't read the whole article which is maybe on the positive side as Kristoff mentionned.
I personaly didn't found inside what was freely readable anything insulting for SC or the users.

It's good to be a modern dinosaurus !

I have read the whole article in hard copy form (I started the thread !!!)
I was surprised that Gordon Reid never reviewed any of the Scope vintage emulations as he has done the Arturia and G-Force stuff etc - (as it turned out with his bad Elektra experience he probably refrained from them)
He thought the emulations (Minimax, Pro-12 etc.) were not perfect but the sound was very good. The software was buggy - he thought a new version with no bugs would be a great bit of kit.
Actually, some of his comments are valid regarding bugs - perhaps some of the bugs in plugiator are legacy Creamware bugs. One thing I didn't like about Creamware was that they couldn't be bothered to fix the annoying bugs that everyone knows about e.g in the Modular. They never released updates (4.5 had the same bugs!) or patches. I hope Soniccore aren't the same.

Let's hope S/C Scope 5 / Xite-1 has as little bugs as possible - perhaps it's worth the delay.

Why don't they go for the challenge and get Gordon Reid to review Xite-1 and blow his socks off!!!!!! - the idea off NOT getting him to review it.....if it has bugs and faults it cannot be covered up - anyway what if Gordon Reid DID do that Elektra review and slagged it to bits ????

well, that would be the Final OSX Countdown, wouldn't it ?
actually Gordon didn't turn any facts regarding Creamware's past...
The (quoted) open offence directed at ProTools probably was FH's biggest mistake on a press release ever - and it's still online by SOS

But the history listing in that particular order at that particular position IS kind of seeding doubt in the product line of whoever is mentioned in this context.

thanks to Chris for adding the bit about Gordon's employment at Cedar...
of course one may smile down from above then

cheers, Tom

strav100 wrote: Why don't they go for the challenge and get Gordon Reid to review Xite-1 and blow his socks off!!!!!! - the idea off NOT getting him to review it.....if it has bugs and faults it cannot be covered up

No, the idea isn't to cover anything up, but to get a fair review of a product without prejudices garnered from a previous encounter with an old product by a different company (which many could get working and don't work professionally, like myself). Also i don't think he sees the worth in Scope so he would have a negative bias before he even got it (and assuming he could get it to work ).

astroman wrote:The (quoted) open offence directed at ProTools probably was FH's biggest mistake on a press release ever - and it's still online by SOS

So is the October 1997 Sound On Sound review of the Creamware Masterport by Janet Harniman Cook where she sums up a balanced & reasonably favorable review by saying -

Janet Harniman Cook wrote:The synergy created by the very fine Masterport software and the Triple board -- one of the best audio cards currently on the market -- provides a true pro-standard recording and editing environment that can be safely recommended.

Then there was the February 1998 Sound On Sound review of the Creamware T-DAT 16 by Janet Harniman Cook where she sums up a balanced & reasonably favorable review by saying -

Janet Harniman Cook wrote:With 16 digital audio channels, flexible analogue interfacing, fast, powerful non-linear editing, real-time DSP effects, Red Book CD writing, and stable synchronisation, the Creamware T-DAT 16 system is a fine all-rounder -- audio production on the PC has come of age!

Then there was the March 1999 Sound On Sound review of the Creamware Pulsar by Martin Walker where he sums up a balanced & reasonably favorable review by saying -

Martin Walker wrote:A powerful introduction to the SCOPE platform that could well become a rival to Pro Tools, especially once Mac drivers arrive to expand its potential market.

Then there was the August 2000 Sound On Sound review of the Creamware Powersampler by Martin Walker where he sums up a balanced & reasonably favorable review by saying -

Martin Walker wrote:Creamware have a strong product on their hands with the Powersampler. It was definitely the right approach to model it on classic Akai S1000/S3000 principles -- it just makes it so easy for people with existing libraries to move sideways with the minimum of fuss, and I can see many musicians who dream of integrating their sampling with their computers doing just this. With support for both Mac and PC, plus Akai and SoundFont compatibility, it has a huge potential market, and I expect it to sell really well. In fact, I'm seriously tempted to buy one myself.

Then there was the June 2003 Sound On Sound review of the Creamware SCOPE Fusion Platform by Mark Wherry where he sums up a balanced & very favorable review by saying -

Mark Wherry wrote:If you've reached the limits of host-based processing, Creamware's SCOPE Fusion Platform provides new avenues of exploration, with unparalleled flexibility, incredible synths and much more. Once you've had an SFP card in your computer, I think it's unlikely you'll ever want to be without one again.

&

When I came to write the pros and cons section of this review, for perhaps the first time ever, I couldn't think of any immediately obvious reasons why someone shouldn't buy one of the products in the SFP family. Not only did I experience flawless operation during the course of the review, as I have done with my original Pulsar I card previously, but the sound of the synths and the whole system generally is tremendous, and the flexibility of the routing, especially if you want to use Gigastudio on the same computer as your sequencer, is unparalleled.

&

at the end of the day, given the sometimes overwhelming expansion options and the backwards compatibility, you can be sure that whichever SFP card you choose, you're not going to outgrow it any time soon — you will, however, simply desire more of the same. As for me... I'm writing a letter. "Dear Creamware, I'm stealing the Power Pulsar. Love, Mark".

Still doesn't say much about Gordon Reid, but I haven't the time myself to dig out all his old articles & read them myself.

yeah, nice quotes indeed. Let's just stop a moment and remember what was supposed a reference DAW back in 98 (from the TDAT review)

... an Intel Pentium 200 with VX motherboard, 256K pipeline burst cache, 80Mb RAM and a 4Mb Trio 64+ PCI graphics card, and this recorded and monitored eight tracks simultaneously and was capable of 24-channel multitrack playback. Considerably better performance should be expected from Pentium 2 or Pentium Pro PCs, especially if equipped with SCSI 3 or UDMA busses. ...

cheers, Tom

at the end of the day, given the sometimes overwhelming expansion options and the backwards compatibility, you can be sure that whichever SFP card you choose, you're not going to outgrow it any time soon — you will, however, simply desire more of the same. As for me... I'm writing a letter. "Dear Creamware, I'm stealing the Power Pulsar. Love, Mark".

..................

That's the guy that went to Media Ventures I believe.....thanks for refreshing my memory Shroomz.
He had a really cool article where he was mentioning the 24/7 rack of Scope GigaDAW's....
I bought out my Scope PIMP/keytech and hired GaryB.....
The best investment in sound and money I ever made.
My last investment however hasn't made me a dime yet, but I am sure once I get it things will be more of the same.
Corporations that have owned the casinos in Vegas for the last 20 years are going belly up, and the Mayor who was the Mob's Lawyers back then seems to have started bringing them back......now if we can only get rid of the Cirque monopoly I'll put XITE-1's in every showroom and have dancers over every night after work,...just like the good old days, only w/ laptops and XITE-1's......... .....ankyuvarymush.

stardust wrote:Phew that was investigative reading
And it also confirms what chris stated about the principle position of SoS.
Thanks Mark

I'd read all those articles at least once before tbh.

As for what chris stated about the principle position of SoS, I completely agree. There isn't a notable bias in their reviews in general. All it takes is a poorly worded intro to an article like the one in question here though & you've got a situation where things are being said that needn't necessarily have been said at all if remaining unbiased.