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Will new windows help or hinder your work? vista hinders it for me. so i use XP.
i MIGHT try windows 7 on my other PC nut i do not really see any reason to. XP hasnt ever given me a BSOD, and i have all kinds of USB crap, extra drives etc hooked up to it.

the only thing slightly compelling about windows 7 it is they say its trim enough to run on a netbook(but still not as trim as xp?) unlike the huge bloated festering maggot that is VISTA they can keep all the desktop crap. i would probably change it to "windows classic" anyways just like i do with XP, Vista etc.

As long as there are XP drivers for new stuff ill stick with XP. "if it aint broke dont fix it"

Like I said I don't know Apple at all. This has nothing to do with the debate over XP versus Vista. I contend Vista is better. Not enough to upgrade your current computer but if you are getting a new computer with enough RAM and a decent graphics card, Vista is worth having. I use the deluxe version.

I probably would try Apple now if I could afford to plus get Xite-1 and some other things. Really I would like to spend about $10,000 on gear right now.

ReD_MuZe wrote:honestly,
ms had only 1 decent OS ever, and thats xp (sp3 is g00d).
no reason to think this will ever change

Vista is stone-age compared to 0SX 10.5, and its supposed to standup against 10.6.
its not just about resource management, its also about gui, and development resources, graphics engine and much much more.

OSX runs full blow animations with alpha channels, and antialiasing in realtime, and on the other hand Vista is busy redrawing simple pixel graphics 90's style.

while searching the entire pc on a mac takes less than 5 seconds, i can wait 5 minutes for a simple seach in windows to end

and you know what? i dont even like OSX i think some of it is stupid and even fascist. but what can i say... Vista is microsoft's worst mistake, and windows-7 seems to be what vista was supposed to be. well its way too late for that...

my advice is get osx and wait for windows 8

I use xp, osx, and vista daily, and even though I don't consider myself an apple fanboy, osX wins hands down. It wins so hard it's not even funny. Interface flashiness, and all the "fun" crap is all icing on top. The way the APIs are built built makes it fast and efficient. Vista thinks it can do graphics that way, but I turn all that crap off the instant I install it. OSX is allowed the graphical fanciness because it doesn't get in the way, and none of the core functionalities are broken. I'm frankly sick of having to figure out the best tweaks for windows, version after version.. so much turning off, registry hacks, etc, etc.. It should just work out of the box, which osX does a very good job of. It just works, and does what it's supposed to do. Simple.

Touch technology is full of crap. It's not the way of the future. Graphically, and in the movies, maybe. But in reality, I doubt it. It's just a dream of tech geeks. Interaction limitations of touch interfaces breaks what makes computing fast and efficient.. So, at best, it's just a fancy presentation tool.

Computing happens from the wrist down. Involving elbows and shoulders, and even more joints for the table lookin' thing, is just stupid. It can involve large motions, but that's not daily computing, that's something else. (like presentation) If you wanted to check email, and the icon just so happened to be across the table.. oh no, you have to lean over and grab it? The reason that the "desktop" is not as big as a real desktop, is because the inefficiencies have been taken out... namely distance. And touch screen re-introduces that and people think it's cool for some reason. If they want to drag stuff over distance, they can drag a sand bag from point A to B repetitively, which is called labor in some parts of town. Physical computing seems and looks natural, but humorously inefficient. Physical concepts have been abstracted in modern day computing for a very good reason. If a person thinks a "document" is better if it looks and acts like paper, that person needs to work on his imagination.

And since the interface has to be based on the size of the finger, and not the mouse cursor, everything becomes big, requiring more screen estate to show equal amount of info. Too much movies, seriously. Touch screen is for ticket booths, you know, the ones with the puzzling UI.

But who knows, just like the US is caught in a touch screen frenzy, the Japanese keep trying to make humanoid robots, maybe it will happen one day. It's not the demand, it's the production that creates the market after all. You see enough ads about it, and before long, everyone has one. See the dudes speaking loudly to themselves like an idiot on a wireless bluetooth headset? That's a good example of a product that exists only because people think it's cool to be talking into an intercom lookin' thing. (well, those were for drivers, not pedestrians) Manufacturers may be interested in "forcing" touch screens since it's got less moving parts? (easier to manufacture) I dunno, but it definitely seems to be forced.

I agree with that. It would make your arm tired to hold it up. There is an advantage over a touch pad or mouse however in that you can use multiple fingers. I could imagine music applications which would take advantage of this. The visual aspect helps your memory and understanding. The SFP let's you see the path of audio which is helpful. If I can visualize something, I can more easily understand it. We know for sure that people love touching the iPhone. It is an inferior keypad though but the angle is better than a monitor. The Microsoft table thing looks cool.

I also turn off Aero. I still like Vista more than XP. I will take your word that Apple is better. Currently it is not within my budget. The Apple OS could easily be sold to PC users if Steve Jobs wants to and Apple would make way more money. This makes me angry. One reason maybe I would consider an Apple boycott. I like to build my own computer. I am not the Apple target. Apple wants women.

ken - i fully agree with the first paragraph, it feels as if it almost came out of my mouth only much better

about touch technology - i don't agree with all you say. touch technology is VERY important especially to us musicians.
Playing music is exactly that - presentation. Touch technology is essential for computer music performance.

Besides that, i really enjoy the multi touch pad in my macbook pro, its very intuitive and easy to use.

computing isn't about computing. computers are tools that are there to help us do just about anything we imagine - part of which is having fun while being inefficient (one of my favorite off-time occupations). touch technology will not replace they keyboard and mouse so soon, but its important. especially for music.

like any technology in its infancy, it seems to be useless. but as history shows allot of useless technologies have become useful over the years. computers are one of those technologies.

braincell - you can install osx on your pc just like you install windows

Isn't that a hack? I'm not sure all my hardware would work with it. It seems somehow risky.

well, actually you guys are right. I guess I meant touch is pretty cumbersome for every day computing, like writing email, word processing, the usual stuff. For specific applications written to take direct advantage of the interface, it works great. Jazzmutant thing for example. But those are embedded units, essentially task specific machines that have all aspects tailored to a specific task. It just seems a little whacky think that general use computers will some day become completely touch screen.

Heck, as long as we're speaking task specific custom units, motion tracking interaction is also very promising. I guess it's that since I'm from a digital media arts background, I've seen so many touch surfaces and all sorts of camera tracking interactive installations that I sort of became immune to the wow factor, and can only think of all the interaction problems that had to get figured out. And so far, I don't think I've come across a single one that transcends "fun little thing to mess with at the convention", and enters into the realm of "a tool that I'd use every day, for hours, and be productive with it".

Heck, I think the jazzmutant thing still falls short. I don't get why anyone would display faders and knobs on it and be happy that they can interact with all of them at the same time. I remember that you could do that with a plain old mixer. Seems the problem is more with the application and interpretation of the capabilities, rather than the hardware.

braincell wrote:Isn't that a hack?

ReD_MuZe wrote:you can install osx on your pc just like you install windows

braincell wrote:I'm not sure all my hardware would work with it. It seems somehow risky.

no pain no gain.

there is a reason you can install osx on your pc... and its good for apple, as you will soon notice.

kensuguro wrote:motion tracking interaction is also very promising.

man! i tried johny lee's head tracking hack with the wii remote, i think it could totally be the future of personal computing. talk about efficiency! move your head a bit and look at everything behind it.

i kinda like the new movement of adapting computers to normal human behavior. not everything needs to be learned. for sure this will convert allot of technophobes...

I like the way you can throw things with touch. It seems very fun.

Red,

Some people complain that the wii does not have enough resolution. What is your experience with this? I tried it once on the game and it didn't seem very responsive.

I believe that 3D games is the future of most entertainment. Music and music software will be a part of that. As we live in a 3D world, it will be very compelling. It also is a good way to remember where things are and where you put them. This is important as we will acquire more and more tools. Try to remember a name of someone you briefly met yet if you see that person, you remember her face.

all this vista windows 7 stuff is baloney.

the next REAL windows upgrade is one where you won't have anything but a dumb terminal. everything will be handled by the corporate master's servers, "Midori" i believe it's called, which will dovetail perfectly into the final solution, hack directly into the brain. i'm sure the matrix will be better than life for for most of the maladjusted "brains" in this world. get ready for the world in which you won't own anything, not even your personal "data".

get ready for the singularity! become the borg and assimilate, resistance is futile!

yawn....
how did conspiracy theories get in here now?

go watch some recent google and sun tech talks and see that the opposite is true, computing is being decentralized! wake up and welcome to the 21st century.
http://laptop.org/en/

but you know what's really interesting? owning things will really get fucked once we have our own personal fabricators, that can produce almost anything we want...
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/neil ... _labs.html

what will it mean to own something when you don't have to pay for it?
what will it mean to own something unique when anyone can replicate it?

The Bonjour service keeps trying to update my computer and install Safari and there is no way to make it stop! F Apple!

nobody told you? NEVER install apple software on windows.
http://www.ajuaonline.com/2007/10/02/ho ... r-service/

how disengenuous Red. Midori is NOT a theory. neither is Cloud. they are real and they ARE the plan and have been. there's a nice talk from A. Huxley in 1962 at Berkley where he describes EXACTLY that.

that's really funny Google being for decentralization, nest you'll tell me that they haven't been working against net nutrality while claiming to be for it. Google and Sun(the guys with the swastika logo) are two PRIME proponents of "cloud" computing. they along with M$ and IBM are the main developers. oh, i know, google with their NSA code are good guys who always tell the truth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

why would the "consumer" want to carry around a whole computer when a small terminal is all that's required? everythings already online anyway. those laptops are the first step. personal fabricators? no. that will never be allowed for the commoners, well not until the 80-90% population reduction. that's bad business. besides, that guy will have every doorknob "interneted". great, that's all i need, talking toasters, how annoying. i'm still waiting for all this leisure time and easy life that technology is supposed to bring. i can see that it does do that for some, but for most, it's the newest form of slavery. NO they WON'T make us independant. we'll get targeted bioweapons and implants first. oh, sorry, those who put the mark of molech on their flags WILL get the goodies, but they have to burn their babies first.

don't get angry though, it's just the internets talk. you don't have to believe it.

also, you know Red, just because i argue with you or what i write rubs you the wrong way, doesn't indicate a lack of respect for the man.

of course some people are planning such stuff, but its getting obvious to every one including the big players, that guys like us just don't dig that stuff, and we (people who know computers) set the public opinion ultimately. not any of their commercials.
just like the smart chip could not replace cash, this can never happen as well.

sun is a company that has always been ahead of the market by several years. inventing technology that ms and apple have commercialized 3-4 years later. their support in open source, and googles support in open source (google summer of code) is enough to convince me that open source is here to stay and perhaps even take over in several years. an install of debian just made me sad there are not enough music tools for it, since it just works better than windows (and i'm making one ).

I believe in my power as a consumer to change the companies that serve me, and you know what? i am basing my own business on the same model, just like more and more major players are.

Imo the information revolution has only started, and no company or conspiracy in the world can stop it. information will be and can be free. once someone makes a fabricator in china, where copyright is basically outlawed, you will have plenty of fabricators all around

and you know what? maybe its an illusion, maybe someone is controlling our lives. well if they are, i'm pretty happy where i am making music for a living, and coding my fav project. i cant ask for much more, except for peace and lasting health.

i don't think the world is run by evil geniuses.
i think it is run by stupid exhibitionists.
and a plan to take over the computing world might easily end up like the war in iraq

cheers!
Assaf

p.s.
no, they just play fools so we think they are and ignore them - genius!

ReD_MuZe wrote:...sun is a company that has always been ahead of the market by several years. inventing technology that ms and apple have commercialized 3-4 years later. their support in open source, and googles support in open source (google summer of code) is enough to convince me that open source is here to stay and perhaps even take over in several years. ...

I believe in my power as a consumer to change the companies that serve me, and you know what? i am basing my own business on the same model, just like more and more major players are...

sorry Red, you're 20 years late, too late to be precise
open source is a convenient way to degrade software quality down to the average level, which in fact does give control (back ?) to those whose existence you deny
I once shared your belief in the power of the consumer and that companies would 'serve' their customers, but it turned out to be complete bullsh*t.

If you don't recognize it in the (business) moves that Apple, M$, Adobe, Oracle, SAP and Google performed, then blame it to your (relative) youth.
We have a proverb here that says 'one time SAP - SAP forever'
and it means once you've installed that (admittedly convenient) tool to run your corporate business, you can never get out again ...without serious risk to go broke.
If your IT department fails, today you have a one week maximum to recover, attempts beyond that timeframe are in vain. (in corporate business)

We don't really have problems at the stock market...
those recent 'problems' are first of all due to software that drives the 'market' and simply goes nuts under certain conditions.

I cannot believe that educated people even waste a single thought on some nonsense aka 'cloud-computing' (effectively handing over every single bit that drives your business to an unknown receiver), but those same people installed millions of Windoze boxes, when that sh*t had the number 95.
And back then there was an alternative - today there isn't anymore
It doesn't matter what it's called, if it's a conspiracy or not - but it is about big bucks and about control

cheers, Tom

i never said it wasn't about control, i'm just saying the ultra-corporate days are numbered.
and perhaps its my youth speaking, but wouldn't you rather people with hope in the industry over people that lost it ?

its kind of like the "decent politician" paradox isn't it?

corporates don't control people they control other corporates. and thats fine by me. if you rely on a single company for your resources, you better be prepared to get screwed and us logic users have witnessed that first hand.

the fact is that commercials are getting less and less effective, and more and more copies of linux are over the world now. i know several open source software that started out as crappy but are now great to work on: open office is now at a point its better than ms office, KDE is a far better and faster desktop than both OSX and XP. konqueror is something i've been dying to have on my osx system for ages. in short, not only is open source growing, its maturing and getting better. it just happens slower than you've hoped for.

i know many people who are making good money from writing open source applications that are VERY good, much better than most corporate made software, especially in mainstream software.

I know working in a corporate environment can be somewhat brainwashing in itself.
I have a friend here working for MS he gets all defensive when i say the word linux. they all do especially now where an ubuntu system is more user friendly than vista.

I received this "you're young and naive" routine when i wanted to be a musician as a kid. well, i'm now an overbooked musician, and i guess i'm going to stay young and naive forever.

i like to keep my world bright grey,
and i'm proud of it

it'd be best if you were right.

the guys who you see as a bunch of show offs are not the decision makers. they are the trained monkeys, so yes, they ARE show offs. the true power runs in very old family lines that NEVER marry outdie their peer group. they mostly marry cousins, but often they marry siblings and they don't transfer power out of the family.

see, there are certain chimp tribes that live iwth a baboon tribe. sometimes the chimps get hungry for some tasty, tasty baboon flesh. what the chimps do is slowly surround their unwitting victim. one or more chimps begin interesting shennanigans in front of the baboon, who being an idiot, can't help but watch. the chimps make funny faces, they spin around and around till they're dizzy and act like clowns. then one big chimp comes up behind the baboon like lightning and smashes his head into the ground killing him instantly. then, it's tasty baboon flesh for everyone. this is done so quickly and stealthily and with such cunning, that the other baboons never realize exactly what happened to their brother.

we already have OnStar.

people have already been locked in their own cars by order of the police for routine traffic stops.


you'll by this product when it's ready Red. it'll be the way things are and the children will be mocking you for being so out of touch.

yes.