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Mr Arkadin wrote:

stardust wrote:Thats where I am probably too much of a liberal saying that even if I would buy the evil elite story i will not defend or overcome them with a gun in my hands.

Gandhi did OK without a gun.

garyb wrote:
another misconception. Ghandi NEVER said that violence was never the way. he definitely upheld one's right to self defense. he just rightly realized that direct armed confrontation with the British wasn't a good idea....

Mr Arkadin wrote:

garyb wrote:
another misconception. Ghandi NEVER said that violence was never the way. he definitely upheld one's right to self defense. he just rightly realized that direct armed confrontation with the British wasn't a good idea....

And i never said violence was never the way, just pointing out that one can bring down big systems (British Empire, Illuminati, reptiles, whatever) without arms.

stardust wrote:I guess this colt thing is deeply implanted into the collective unconsciousness of US citizens as the only answer to a unspecific paranoia. There is no way around it.

Funny enough that it is mirrored the other way round. I should feel like missing a limb when I have no gun even if I dont feel the need at all to own one. So I am equalized to the rules of the hidden agenda.

stardust wrote:yes I am willing to accept that I am a victim of indoctrination that makes me feel complete without the right to click a rifle in my living room gun rack.
If I would like to I probably could apply for a license without too much problems, but there is no need.

Mr Arkadin wrote:

garyb wrote: those people(who don't complain) are all imperial subjects. Americans are sovereign, though there are those who don't understand that and/or would like to end that. it doesn't matter, however what they are or are not demanding. it's a stupid mindset that says we always need to be asking permission from our "authorities" for the right to live our OWN lives, the "betters" will defend their's to the death without hesitation. i'm no slave, even if they try to treat me like one.

Gary, not everyone who doesn't buy into conspiracy theories is stupid. Yes i have a Queen, no i don't ask her for permission to use guns because i don't want them. Do you get it yet? I DON'T WANT THEM. i don't give a monkey's what the government do or do not allow me in terms of firearms - i do not want them. There are ways i actually could legally own a firearm in the UK and yet i can't be bothered to even check it out - because i don't want them.

i'm not brainwashed. i'm not stupid. i'm not ignorant just because i don't want what you want. And most people in the UK don't want guns (except kids who think it's cool - exactly the sort of people you don't want to have guns) - so that's 60 million stupid people. Oh well, it's comforting to know we have superior intellects capable of free thought in the USA.

garyb wrote:

stardust wrote:yes I am willing to accept that I am a victim of indoctrination that makes me feel complete without the right to click a rifle in my living room gun rack.
If I would like to I probably could apply for a license without too much problems, but there is no need.

my friend, that's great. i take pleasure in your well being. if you ever need one for ANY reason, as i know you're a good person who knows right from wrong, you are entitled, even if it's for defending your life. you have as much right as the prime minister or madonna does in that. NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO DENY YOU THAT. period.

braincell wrote:If you live in Washington D.C. you are *Not* entitled to own a gun. They are the only sane place in our country.

On October 28, 2005, Barry pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor charges stemming from an IRS investigation. At the mandatory drug testing at that hearing, he tested positive for cocaine and marijuana.

Quotes on the Second Amendment
The Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788


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"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.


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"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."


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"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights


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"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"


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The Founding Fathers on Arms

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States


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"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine


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"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788


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"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot


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"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot


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"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States


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"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.


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"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8


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The Founding Fathers on Maintaining Freedom

"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States


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"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer


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"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
Edmund Burke
British Statesman, 1784


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"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison


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"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin
American Statesman


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Later Quotes on Gun Control

"The ruling class doesn't care about public safety. Having made it very difficult for States and localities to police themselves, having left ordinary citizens with no choice but to protect themselves as best they can, they now try to take our guns away. In fact they blame us and our guns for crime. This is so wrong that it cannot be an honest mistake."
Malcolm Wallop
former U.S. Sen. (R-WY)


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"An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject."
Anon.
Seen on a bumper sticker


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Pro Gun Control

"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.


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"If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933


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Acknowledgements
I did not personally do any research from original documents, but I would like to thank the following sources.
"Trader Bob" of Thunder Ridge Muzzleloading who had a selection in various places throughout the catalog.
"Colonel Dan" in the Cowboy Chronicle, who always has interesting commentary as well.
Marvin H. Meuser, Jr. in the "The Right Voice" has a selection of quotes supplemental to his essays on gun control.
"Never do your foe a minor injury." -- Machiavelli

garyb wrote:
don't you get it? i don't think you have to, or need to get a gun! i don't know what you deal with daily. frankly, i have no emotional attachment to you having a gun, not having a gun, liking guns, not liking guns, thinking they're a stupid invention(they are) or even thinking they're the savior of mankind, i just defend your right to defend yourself. you, me, the queen, we all have that right. if you don't defend yourself, you have that right also, although it is unnatural and deviant. yes, deviant. all creatures in creation, and indeed even plants do what they can to survive. this is normal and good. of course, in mankind, normal, good things often become deviant as well, but that's another story and thread.....

Mr Arkadin wrote:

garyb wrote:
don't you get it? i don't think you have to, or need to get a gun! i don't know what you deal with daily. frankly, i have no emotional attachment to you having a gun, not having a gun, liking guns, not liking guns, thinking they're a stupid invention(they are) or even thinking they're the savior of mankind, i just defend your right to defend yourself. you, me, the queen, we all have that right. if you don't defend yourself, you have that right also, although it is unnatural and deviant. yes, deviant. all creatures in creation, and indeed even plants do what they can to survive. this is normal and good. of course, in mankind, normal, good things often become deviant as well, but that's another story and thread.....

So now it's deviant to want a society free of guns? OK Introducing guns into the UK would just increase gun crime - crime would not go down, that's bullshit and you know it. i'm talking specifically about my country here.

You don't get that's it's not about my right to self defence, it's about a sane society. In most everyday situations we don't need guns. Who knows one day i might get caught in a situation with a gun. Odds are that i wouldn't be able to get my gun if i had one in time, that my own gun would be used against me, or that i would escalate the scenario to a worse conclusion (check have a go heroes). i refuse to live in a society governed by fear just in case the other guy's got one.

Anyway, what do i know, i've been brainwashed by the Queen for so long i can't think straight.

siriusbliss wrote:
PLEASE do research on crime rate vs. gun control in major cities. In the US, the highest crime rates are in DC, Miami, New York, LA, Dallas, etc. where there are VERY strict gun laws. With mostly the immigrant smugglers and drug runners having guns the crime goes UP.

siriusbliss wrote: The REAL enemy is brainwashed ignorance.