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We live in a world now that we are conditioned to always blame someone or something. So someone has to take responsibility and be accountable not as much to what happened but to what did NOT really happens. The ability to react and be prepared to deal with a disaster.

Someone should be responsible for the 1000's of innocent lives that were wasted in this tragedy.

Well since you can NOT blame GOD then you ought to blame someone. "Maybe it is time GWB blame "Dieu" for such action.

this Hurricane may not be a preventable but its devastating effect could have been realized earlier and proper measures could have been taken to minimize the loss of life.

Screw material things. What matters here is Human lives.

I could not even watch what TV is showing about this and I am 100 of miles away and see people stranded on roof tops and without water and shelter. Imagine being there.

after 5 days a human being ratinal senses shut down and instinct take over.

what people are doing now is not criminal or animal like. after 5 days humans go into survival mode and forget all about the etiquette behavior.


shoot to kill article here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 44,00.html

Why don't I pre-empt some of the conspiracy theory nutters and offer the end-point in this train of thought ? It'll save so much time...

The hurricane was caused by US weather control experiments (Bush's fault), magnified by US greenhouse emissions (Bush's fault), and designed to divert attention from the Iraq insurgency (Bush's fault). This brilliant plan (conceived by Bush's clever friends) simultaneously attacks blacks and the poor (Bush's usual targets), while ensuring federal funds will be generously given to the US oil industry (Bush's friends) for reconstruction.

On 2005-09-02 16:01, Spirit wrote:
Why don't I pre-empt some of the conspiracy theory nutters and offer the end-point in this train of thought ? It'll save so much time...

ensuring federal funds will be generously given to the US oil industry (Bush's friends) for reconstruction.

actually, of all the things "nutters" could come up with, this is the one sure bet.

b.t.w.- i want to be clear. i do NOT think that gwb was responsible for the storm.

#2 although i do NOT think that someone made this storm, i know that weather altering weapons are real. remember this bill in the us congress?:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?c107:chemtrails

[QUOTE]SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;

(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;

(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or

(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.

(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--

(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space[/UNQUOTE]

things that don't exist are not legislated.

about the budgets from THIS july specifically mentioning the levees as life or death:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... 7367/print

most of these people in the worst of it are doomed. those in control may not have done it, but it's clear to those missing family (3/4 of the people i know) that those in control don't really care.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-09-02 16:31 ]</font>

I do recall reading recently (BBC?) about some US program designed to reduce the intensity of hurricanes, and that Cuba was most unhappy as it construed the program as weather-control weaponry.

Certainly weather control - even in its most mild "cloud-seeding" form - has been researched for decades.

On 2005-09-02 16:26, garyb wrote:
...remember this bill in the us congress?:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?c107:chemtrails...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-09-02 16:31 ]</font>

HR 2977
"To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons."

Basically an effort to undermine any further progress on SDI?

Let's not overlook: Introduced by Dennis Kucinich

The guy is the laughing stock of Ohio (which is where I live). The guy is constanly on the far, far, radical fringes of anything and everything. His 2004 Presidential bid was laughable - the portion of the primary vote he garnered indicated failure from day one, yet he refused to stop ranting and stayed in the race until nearly all other (smarter, more reasonable) hopefuls in his party had gracefully bowed out.

On 2005-09-02 16:01, Spirit wrote:
Why don't I pre-empt some of the conspiracy theory nutters and offer the end-point in this train of thought ? It'll save so much time...

Gotta love that! Don't forget the Kyoto Protocol - We never had such powerful hurricanes until GWB refused to sign-on... Weather history doesn't begin in the last 10, 50 or even 100 years. The notion that cycles in climate and weather are exclusively the result of man's existence and the subsequent effect on the environment are extremely ill founded.

Predictable to see the right-wingers out in force to shelter Bush from that pesky criticism as usual.

The thing I don't understand is why the hell people were left behind to fend for themselves?!?

Okay, I can understand if someone is stubborn and refuses to leave their property you can't force them to leave. However for people who want to leave but simply cannot afford it, to leave them to rot in a vast festering sewer is the most subhuman behaviour possible.

The authorities haven't done *shit* for almost a week now. These are people with vast amounts of money and resources. The victims are the desperately poor, and predominantly black.

There isn't a single American I know that doesn't admit that this is pure unadulterated racism.

So quit defending the brutal tyrants already. You're a human being, not a political cheerleader.

And another thing - if your pathetic law enforcement authorities are too scared to go in and distribute food and water because they are scared of getting shot by black gangsters, then maybe strap some supplies to some news crews - they seem pretty good at getting in there to retreive footage.

very good point darkrezin. camera crew are capable of entering and getting footage but not the national guard. may be all in Iraq building a nation that is democratic and free for all iraqi to live in (one)"piece" and prosper.

better yet drop supplies as gary suggested the same way they did in Afganistan.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: antar on 2005-09-02 17:39 ]</font>

I've read about 1 incident where they were dropping supplies from the top of a bridge. The supplies were getting destroyed by the force of the drop - might as well not bother.. precious supplies dissolving into the toxic soup all around.

When people tried to climb up to retreive supplies soldiers pointed guns at them until they went back down.

Makes me fucking sick.

Knew I could count on that perspective from you rez'

Criticizm is easy, dude. Action is hard, but that's what's required.

BTW; ever considered the roles and actual effectiveness of local and state agencies in all this? Oh, I forgot - US Presidency decides/controls all! Not a single other individual/entity at any level has any independence to affect any other outcome than what has been established in the oval office. There are separate powers that have roles to play in many affairs every day. Not all paths lead to Washington, DC and sometimes things just don't happen perfectly - there's a tendency for that to happen working with humans. I'd offer for you to get the facts before offering your staunch condemnation, but again, as already stated US politicians will reinforce their own importance by ordering a commision to "get to the bottom" of all of this so that someone can be the scapegoat. They'll spend months and millions and uncover more details and actions and inactions than you can enumerate. What real difference does that make at this point? In the end someone will have bragging rights that they were right, their political nemesis was wrong (thus the self-empowerment of the political machine), millions will have been spent, real legislative business will have been tabled in the interim and we'll still all know that New Orleans flooded because of undersized levees, thousands died needlessly. BFD

Donate something - do something. This isn't time for partisan BS.

On 2005-09-02 17:40, darkrezin wrote:
I've read about 1 incident where they were dropping supplies from the top of a bridge. The supplies were getting destroyed by the force of the drop - might as well not bother.. precious supplies dissolving into the toxic soup all around.

When people tried to climb up to retreive supplies soldiers pointed guns at them until they went back down.

Makes me fucking sick.

Yes, we know you'd do it perfectly.

If I was getting paid to help people, then I'd try to help them rather than pointing guns at them.

It's funny how the state/federal card gets played in these situations. People pay their taxes. I don't think they give a f**k who helps them, the state or the federal government.

If it was a terrorist attack, the feds would be down there like a shot. And to be honest, this sort of thing hits communities a hell of a lot harder than a terrorist attack.

And it's not about pointing a finger at that stupid monkey you have for a president. The questions I and a huge amount of people in the US and the rest of the world are asking are:

1. why were people left to rot in faeces?
2. why has it taken so long to help them?

So sorry narly, you'll have to do better than that

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-09-02 17:53 ]</font>

Perhaps, but not for you.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: narly on 2005-09-02 21:22 ]</font>

Bravo. Really, well done. Must have taken you a while to think up that riposte.

Another question I'd like to ask is why is it justified to send in armed police/military to defend shops when:

1) they are covered by insurance;
2) the contents would not really be possible to sell anyway because of flood damage;
3) the people have absolutely NO alternative for food. They can't even buy it.

Why does protecting trivial property come before the welfare of people who desperately need a fucking break? Or do you subscribe to the bullshit evil calvinist thought shared by many of the vicious governors in Washington, that some people just deserve to die because they ain't worth shit?

On 2005-09-02 19:25, narly wrote:
Perhaps, but not for a stupid monkey like you.

???
this is planetz, remember?

I think the matter was to secure the area for the civilians and aid workesr from those taking pot-shots at police and air-lift helicopters with their assult weapons. Tough conditions to ask anyone to work in... Read my earlier post - protecting food stores is agreed a non-priority. Keep in mind also, that the perps running around the scene with AK-47's are possibly the exact reason some people chose to stay - to protect what they could of their own. Perhaps not the best choice, but to some degree understandable.

I'm not saying things couldn't have been or shouldn't have been accomplished in a better, more effective manner. To immediately assign blame to the feds or anyone at this point is both naive and fruitless. Thousands of square miles have been decimated. Not everyone can be helped first. Mobilization of such a huge rescue operation is bound to happen with it's share of mishaps. Thousands of rescues, often one at a time, are occuring as conditions and resources allow. It's entirely unfair to take individual reports of situations gone-wrong and fire off an indictment to the President. It's my wonder that in your world nothing is ever supposed to happen imperfectly. I've begun to think that you haven't ever actially done much because doing something may cause you to realize your own imperfections. If you're already comfortable with your own humanity, I do apologize. Try to pass on some understanding to rest of us as well - we don't actually have the ability to be perfect according to your grand scheme for us. It ain't a perfect world, no matter what you're political agenda.

As has always been, and always will be the case, things have gone wrong and blame will be assigned in due time - you'll have a culprit and the political powers will thrive as a result. Your thirst for blood will be quenched by the efforts of many self-serving partisan hacks and power-mongering politicians.

Meantime, let's see what WE can DO to help in the real world rather than pontificate about what should happen in our envisionment of an ideal world.

Out.

On 2005-09-02 19:38, hubird wrote:
this is planetz, remember?

Retracted.

Sorry - I keep forgetting that dissenting viewpoints are often frowned upon by the bulk of the contributors to this forum

In this forum, perhaps it is dissent, but outside, you're with the majority it would seem.

narly-
i have no problem with you having your opinion, although i think you are uninformed about a few details. no matter, it's saving those people stuck there that is the real issue, as you said.

the accounts of gunplay are overexaggerated. police deal with worse here around L.A. ghettos than what's there in new orleans. certainly there have been lunatics shooting, but out of thousands and thousands of victims, maybe 50 people have been trouble. police can't handle that? there's no excuse for the lack of concern and aid by local, state and federal authorities.

an example of disinformation; the people in the superdome who were not moved because of ONE gunshot. local louisiana news stated that the reason that people were not moved is that after being horribly mistreated, living in a hellish concentration camp that is the superdome with feces and urine everywhere so that people were tying baggies to their feet to try to keep them clean, no light/power, no food/water, no working toilets and 10s of thousands of people packed like cattle and held at gunpoint(none may leave, my source for this info,l.a. times), authorities refused to tell these people where they were going. many panicked, remembering that during ww2 people were taken to camps in a similar fashion. wouldn't it be easier to try and treat people with dignity instead of like animals? wouldn't it have been easier(and cheaper) to build up the dikes properly? as i said, this stinks of eugenics. now i just say, "act like you care. the supplies exist, deliver them yesterday! and while you're at it, freeze fuel prices and don't allow price gouging. oil companies have made record profits since all these terrorist invasions, let them eat a little bit of this so that the economy doesn't collapse..."

soon there WILL be major problems when thousands and thousands of refugees realize that there's no future for them. new orleans residents, if they EVER can go back, won't be able to return for at least a year. if they are left in camps indefinitely, look for violence and dispair.....

btw-many of the "looters" were police. the police need supplies too..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-09-03 00:48 ]</font>