The monster of atomic war is upon us, again...

[garyb]

(to the Fluxpod remark)
wel, that's funny.
i deleted the same thought from my last post, namely that the one who is de facto kinda 'front office' for the company which is the reason we're here should be careful to vent rather strong political views.
I deleted it as it might look I use that to chain his mouth.

I said the same for Nestor being an admin of this board, and I keep saying this, as per definition an admin should stay out of the heat otherwise some members get the feeling they're not so welcom.
Concerning Garyb, If I was S/C I wouldn't like it to see an important representative showing off his radicalistic political views so strongly.

damn, wish I could write better English and specially also faster

yes, it's most ironic that you, the proponent of democracy, would want to stifle me.
i'm not that radical, but i do know that any kind of "democracy" that censors dissenting opinions is no democracy, just as any republic that stifles a minority is just mob rule. both are types of suthoritarian dictatorships in that they try to mandate thought. badness in the name of goodness is still bad. or as Popeye would say, "wrong is wrong, even if it helps you".

[hubird]

well, for others there's more at hand, you may reread some posts and feel the irritation.

I just like to repost this sentense of mine:

hm, if I was allowed to quote from a long pm I got today you all would be astonished about the expressed frustration about the direction Planetz has taken for some years now.
The message didn't come from an active member in this (or any) thread anyway, so it adds up to the current protesters in this thread.

don't delete anything, that would be rediculous.
You and others just could be more conscious about how the pronounced visions of you and the sometimes too agressive way of presenting them (check the antiStardust posts) are a source for irritation and even for staying away.

[garyb]

I wrote that because i recieved some more or less drastic opinions from people on other boards and from people who check this forum(because i told em to) I have absolutly NOTHING against gary in the slightest.I just thought i mention that.I may should have done so via pm.Anyway no need to delete anything it was just a hint.Not more not less.Posting about passionated stuff is fun and ok till it intercollides with a buisness then it stops being a "just my opinion" thingy.And that is just my view of that.Now back to Nuclear wars and how much they would rule.

i agree with this.

for example, even though both Hubird and Stardust dislike me personally(apparently), NONE of our disagreements would have anything to do with my desire to help them with something that is my job to help them with. nor would i not enjoy helping them(if i could). far from that! mental sparring in an off topic forum is just passing time.

i have to be truthful though. i really don't want to give a bad impression of a company just because they have the bad taste to hire a degenerate like myself, one who is obviously unworthy to spend time in the company of real human beings and that is something to consider.....

[garyb]

well, for others there's more at hand, you may reread some posts and feel the irritation.

I just like to repost this sentense of mine:

hm, if I was allowed to quote from a long pm I got today you all would be astonished about the expressed frustration about the direction Planetz has taken for some years now.
The message didn't come from an active member in this (or any) thread anyway, so it adds up to the current protesters in this thread.

don't delete anything, that would be rediculous.
You and others just could be more conscious about how the pronounced visions of you and the sometimes too agressive way of presenting them (check the antiStardust posts) are a source for irritation and even for staying away.

hubird, i really DO hear you.

again, though, what is spurring me on is just that Nestor wanted to talk about his fear that the current saber rattling is serious this time. he loves people in general and is terribly worried that many will die horribly soon. people wrote disagreeing with his opinion, people wrote comforting him and people wrote agreeing with the possibility, at least. all this is fine. the problem started(in my opinion) when some people decided that he shouldn't talk about this stuff. i can't have a problem with a point of view that disagrees with mine(except to tell what i think), but i have a problem with being told not to have an opinion.

[hubird]

even though both Hubird (...) dislike me personally(apparently),

You won't believe me but it's not true.
I just don't like your 'political' view and especially the cynical way you and your mates in view react to some others regarding the subject.
Probably you conspiracy thinkers don't realise anymore how your view is looked at by a lot of other people, like Europeans like Stardust, me and others.
So the way of pushing your views looks quite intolerant to me.

btw, you can't equate (great) helfull actions with IMO intolerant or harsch behaviour in political discussions...

[garyb]

ok, i believe you!

i may be a bit cynical.
again, i'll give the defnintion of the optimist, pessimist and cynic
an optimist will always loan uncle Frank $20
a pessimist will never loan uncle Frank $20
the cynic has already loaned uncle Frank $20

the cynic is usually an optimist at heart.

[hubird]

hehe, that could be true.

the problem with Nestor is that he started to contribute so heavily to the (supposed) athmosphere we are now talking about, yet without understanding the tricky sides of his actions, not even when pointed to it.
An admin should be able to operate much more subtle, and if he doesn't he can expect something.
The annoyance wasn't even explainable to him, which makes it almost necessary to block him harsch to open his eyes.
It's nice you take his part, but he's the guy who typically has to learn it the hard way.

[next to nothing]

Some "involved parties" might know that i am not a huge fan of deleting posts from earlier episodes

Anyway, Gary, I am not saying I have a specially fine tuned bullshit filter, as little as anyone else. As mentioned earlier, I do like to get some underlaying facts straight when i recognize things i either have been "warned of" by similar warnings earlier, like the (debunked in 2010) Mosanto/Xe thing, or things that resemble these things, and try to shed my view on it.

And as to strongly asserting my opinions, i don't feel I am the only one doing that in this thread

If you being alive during the Vietnam war is of any significance, well then I will claim the fact that i was IN kosovo during the first stadium of the international part of that conflict is a pretty strong point as well, seeing that i followed the situation closely long time before i went down there. Well i guess that is going to be used against me in some way as well Anyway, you might remember that before the NATO invading Kosovo (which UN didn't hide their support of), NATO started an unsanctioned bombing of Yugoslavia to get to the regime of Milosevic. If you have any idea of what was going on in Kosovo before the international troops went in then i am very interested in hearing how you'd see that situation being stopped if it wasn't for the international community.

But seeing that there has been a lot of good posts since started writing this one I willl leave it be, get a beer and go watch some TV

Enjoy your weekend all, and lets keep haggeling as we have done the last 10 years

[hubird]

Though like always it is going in circles around the pathologic self pity again.

hey Stardust, well yes, it's quite some reading what you had to do
but the 'circling' just seemed to be broken a bit in the end, so I'd say let's see how it goes

[Nestor]

What if a person would write to any of us through a PM irritated about a “point of view” which is different from the irritation that comes from some other “point of view” guy saying the opposite? Well, the only objective thing is that both are “believes” but none of the thoughts or points of views can be declared as being more accurate to each other in any way until they are proven. So there is no way to give to any of both any priority.

For instance, nobody discuss about a proven fact that everyone can see and touch, like “fire burns” for example, because a fact that can be 100% proven, is there, there is no doubt about it and even if you don’t agree, it is there for you to see its reality, even if you hate the fact that fire burns, or you love it.

As long as truth is not seen or proven, both points of view in opposition have the same value under the eyes of natural justice. To like or dislike a point of view does not mean to make it real or unreal. Agreement or disagreement does not constitute truth itself.

The problem here is that we are talking about a war that it is not yet, and so it is something that has two possibilities: the war starts, the war does not start.

For me it is a fact that this war will start, and this is my concern and feeling.

[garyb]

Some "involved parties" might know that i am not a huge fan of deleting posts from earlier episodes

Anyway, Gary, I am not saying I have a specially fine tuned bullshit filter, as little as anyone else. As mentioned earlier, I do like to get some underlaying facts straight when i recognize things i either have been "warned of" by similar warnings earlier, like the (debunked in 2010) Mosanto/Xe thing, or things that resemble these things, and try to shed my view on it.

And as to strongly asserting my opinions, i don't feel I am the only one doing that in this thread

If you being alive during the Vietnam war is of any significance, well then I will claim the fact that i was IN kosovo during the first stadium of the international part of that conflict is a pretty strong point as well, seeing that i followed the situation closely long time before i went down there. Well i guess that is going to be used against me in some way as well Anyway, you might remember that before the NATO invading Kosovo (which UN didn't hide their support of), NATO started an unsanctioned bombing of Yugoslavia to get to the regime of Milosevic. If you have any idea of what was going on in Kosovo before the international troops went in then i am very interested in hearing how you'd see that situation being stopped if it wasn't for the international community.

But seeing that there has been a lot of good posts since started writing this one I willl leave it be, get a beer and go watch some TV

Enjoy your weekend all, and lets keep haggeling as we have done the last 10 years

NATO is the international community....

as to the history of that region, you do know where the English word "slave" comes from, yes? or... like so many things, maybe what i am pointing to there is not true.
there's a reason that all the great European wars seem to start there. something horrible happened there during the time of the Ottoman Empire and something unspeakable happened there in ww2 to lead to that conflict. i can assure you of this, however. all of those atrocities that culminated in Milosevic are part of the international community's work. the people who formed the UN are the same people who are known for marrying first cousins and siblings and patricide, and warsd of conquest. hasn't the point of all of the world's greatest murders and thieves always been the uniting of the world under one strong hand?

this is not to say that a central authority is automatically "bad". it just means that i don't trust them. i've already loaned uncle Frank $20.

anyway, whatever the UN is, it doesn't seem to mind massive military buildup aimed at Iran. just as Iraq was not a threat, i doubt that Iran is either. i don't expect a war, but i wouldn't be surprised either.

[hubird]

What if a person would write to any of us through a PM irritated about a “point of view” which is different from the irritation that comes from some other “point of view” guy saying the opposite?

you still don't see why I said an admin should be carefully in taking positions?

[garyb]

“Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one’s own sunshine”

Ralph Waldo Emerson
-----------------------------------------------------------
Havent seen these OT postings for a while.

Though like always it is going in circles around the pathologic self pity again.
Also the unbalanced US-centric paranoia still dominates.
OT is obviously the place to compensate perceived deprivation.

Nestor you deviate from an expedient moderation neutrality in a way I have not seen in any decent fora before. Congrats.
Garyb even if your pseudo literate blethering may impress the zealots of the 'them' religion, it just does not catch the essence.
You pretend to help, in fact you only defend your overly rogue doctrine, that is not applicable to earthlings that prefer life over lament.
Listen to what the less dogmatic Zs have said in here.

On the topic that the pale riders of OT pretend to be concerned with, all has been voiced. or are we missing anything.
What the vigilance squad is missing is...... a clue.

And to no surprise you dont find it in your lament.
So again I cannot help the impression that you dont strive for better but are happy to resonate with your buddies in an overly complex alibi.

Why not, seems you like that state of mind and soul.
Please dont expect that decent people join in that.
Though please listen the shamefaced Z-voices, that you guys bully in this and other threads. The silent majority of Z is bearing you only.
If you call this censorship then you really dont know what censorship is and how the coarse repetition of conspiracy theories fails to be more than a rallying cry for believers.
Why do you think that everyone around is blind and does not see corruption, greed and abuse of power ?
The paranoid conclusions you take and the lament you repeat is what does not swing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We have an appointment with life, and that appointment takes place in the present moment. If we miss the present moment, we miss our appointment with life, which is serious."

Thich Nhat Hanh

i'm sorry, did you just say that there is no corruption, greed or abuse of power or that no one should talk about it and it will go away?

life?
i'm just living.

[next to nothing]

just as Iraq was not a threat, i doubt that Iran is either. i don't expect a war, but i wouldn't be surprised either.

I take it you are talking about the first gulf war, since the 2003 invasion wasn't approved by the UN seurity council either.

[Fluxpod]

What if a person would write to any of us through a PM irritated about a “point of view” which is different from the irritation that comes from some other “point of view” guy saying the opposite? Well, the only objective thing is that both are “believes” but none of the thoughts or points of views can be declared as being more accurate to each other in any way until they are proven. So there is no way to give to any of both any priority.


I disagree.Points of view in this regard can very well be classified as more weightfull or true if the person behind that quote or view has more knowledge about the theme that is up to discuss.It it still to be proven by meaningfull sources.And more pitifull,mostly these sources even if true get disregarded due to stubborn viewpoints.

For instance, nobody discuss about a proven fact that everyone can see and touch, like “fire burns” for example, because a fact that can be 100% proven, is there, there is no doubt about it and even if you don’t agree, it is there for you to see its reality, even if you hate the fact that fire burns, or you love it.

That depends entirely of where and when fire burns.


As long as truth is not seen or proven, both points of view in opposition have the same value under the eyes of natural justice. To like or dislike a point of view does not mean to make it real or unreal. Agreement or disagreement does not constitute truth itself.

Truth is more or less subjektive to the person who reflects that truth in their life.It should get build upon views and how you and other people who may or may not have a better understanding on how this planet operates.It can form your understanding and your description of "truth".All you have to do is to filter the complete madness that often flyes with these opinions.The Internet is absolutly no place IMO and IME to get a clue on how we do and how me may do better.Go out and meet people.


The problem here is that we are talking about a war that it is not yet, and so it is something that has two possibilities: the war starts, the war does not start.

For me it is a fact that this war will start, and this is my concern and feeling.

"A war that is not yet" It is indeed not yet.And if it comes hey.Better than a Zombie Apocalypse right?

Why is it a fact for you that this war will start? Thats a Horrible point of view.I for one can say that i am 100% certain that this will not happen.

[hubird]

I am dreaming of the old times now.

yeah

[garyb]

just as Iraq was not a threat, i doubt that Iran is either. i don't expect a war, but i wouldn't be surprised either.

I take it you are talking about the first gulf war, since the 2003 invasion wasn't approved by the UN seurity council either.

no, i was just talking about the current issue at hand.

but the 2003 war wasn't about 4 of the security council members along with a number of other general members? i guess plausible deniability strikes again.

no, i was just going back on topic. i told you, this is just a bunch of talk.

[garyb]

What if a person would write to any of us through a PM irritated about a “point of view” which is different from the irritation that comes from some other “point of view” guy saying the opposite? Well, the only objective thing is that both are “believes” but none of the thoughts or points of views can be declared as being more accurate to each other in any way until they are proven. So there is no way to give to any of both any priority.


I disagree.Points of view in this regard can very well be classified as more weightfull or true if the person behind that quote or view has more knowledge about the theme that is up to discuss.It it still to be proven by meaningfull sources.And more pitifull,mostly these sources even if true get disregarded due to stubborn viewpoints.

For instance, nobody discuss about a proven fact that everyone can see and touch, like “fire burns” for example, because a fact that can be 100% proven, is there, there is no doubt about it and even if you don’t agree, it is there for you to see its reality, even if you hate the fact that fire burns, or you love it.

That depends entirely of where and when fire burns.


As long as truth is not seen or proven, both points of view in opposition have the same value under the eyes of natural justice. To like or dislike a point of view does not mean to make it real or unreal. Agreement or disagreement does not constitute truth itself.

Truth is more or less subjektive to the person who reflects that truth in their life.It should get build upon views and how you and other people who may or may not have a better understanding on how this planet operates.It can form your understanding and your description of "truth".All you have to do is to filter the complete madness that often flyes with these opinions.The Internet is absolutly no place IMO and IME to get a clue on how we do and how me may do better.Go out and meet people.


The problem here is that we are talking about a war that it is not yet, and so it is something that has two possibilities: the war starts, the war does not start.

For me it is a fact that this war will start, and this is my concern and feeling.

"A war that is not yet" It is indeed not yet.And if it comes hey.Better than a Zombie Apocalypse right?

Why is it a fact for you that this war will start? Thats a Horrible point of view.I for one can say that i am 100% certain that this will not happen.

well, both of those views might be horrible.

[garyb]

ok, but how do you know what i do in the real world?

yes, i can be grouchy, but you're a little prickly yourself.
i'm suspecting that i'm not who you think i am, not that it matters....

[garyb]

you're right!

if the go out into the sun once in a while, they wouldn't be so pale!

you know me through your own predjudices. you're no different than the rest.