PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

I think by double in age he meant that spending so much time on debugging might double your own age - not that his age is double yours or vice versa.

Anyway, Scope like any other system has its problems, even it only has a development team of one. In that case, I only use it for what I know it can do, like Mixbus, UAD and Reason.

I can crash any of my systems independent of the other if I try making them do things they cant do.

So simple answer - only do things you have tested, saved as templates and stop trying to do things that crash. Since 2 decades I've been doing just that on all subsystems. Yes I know what the bugs are, spend 1% of total music making time dealing with them, another 1% on updating them then spend the other 98% of the time making music. I don't rely on one interface, I don't rely on 1 core, SSD or softwares but have redundancy built in.

If something impacts your workflow too much - get some redundancy, remove bad part and move on. Scope is most likely never going to have massive or fast development ever so just use it for what it does and that's your bang for buck. And yes, I'm a fanboy. I'm a fanboy equally of Scope, Harrison, UAD, Propellerhead, Kontakt and all the VST vendors I use. I just count myself lucky I can use them all on the one awesome system

Thanks Dante, you are right.
I have been using my Scope based equipment for many years, supporting the three companies the system has gone through.
We can simply read what other forums say about us, for example gearslutz:
"The people on the Scope forum are like LDS teens on their first mission and unable to say anything remotely critical about it"
And with the comments that some make, it turns out that they are right.

Thanks bud weiser, for putting on the table the best lesson you can give:
I gained a valuable lesson: Don’t invest in proprietary technology that’s been basically abandoned.
Sonic Core will appreciate your contribution, when, encouraged by your comments, we sell the equipment purchased from them and we will no longer criticize them.

roberflash, I'm also on Gearslutz and have participated there quite a bit over the years. It seems to me that you might be cherry-picking your quote there to suit your opinion-which you are of course entitled to.

Scope 7 came along largely unannounced and unexpected, and for those who had 5.1 at the time it offered enough to be compelling as an upgrade, and it was not expensive at all. In fact there were 3rd party devs who threw some very nice extras into the pot. There are a few things that have never made the transition to 64bit like STS Samplers & Sequencers, but this is due to the native resources they use. Since there are native solutions to these things (sequencing and samplers), the only thing that seems amiss to me is slave to BNC clock with Xite.

What is it that you're lacking from Scope 7, personally? From reading your posts I can't tell.

roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:13 am Thanks bud weiser, for putting on the table the best lesson you can give:
I gained a valuable lesson: Don’t invest in proprietary technology that’s been basically abandoned.
Sonic Core will appreciate your contribution, when, encouraged by your comments, we sell the equipment purchased from them and we will no longer criticize them.

Man, please don´t jangle my nerves !
When you don´t get, just only complaining makes no sense,- nobody can help you here.
When you want some help, report the issues you have w/ SCOPE and ask for soulutions.
If there are any, you´ll get ´em here.

Otherwise, you´re just only trolling.


Bud

The only thing I'm claiming is in this thread:
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35221

For me and for all users

roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:36 am For me and for all users

How very populist of you.

roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:31 am The only thing I'm claiming is in this thread:
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35221

I listed the repeatable issues that I'm aware of from that thread in my post, aside from some smaller issues like certain devices having an incorrect GUI state for a specific control or etc. I'm not here to encourage Bud or anyone else into divisive behavior, but I would again ask what YOUR specific issue is that you're having a problem with?

roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:03 am "The people on the Scope forum are like LDS teens on their first mission and unable to say anything remotely critical about it"

Because the criticism is old ground and adds no value. Any issues with Scope are basically a byproduct of the market position Scope has found itself in namely that it didn't take off as much as many other products so therefore expecting anything like the a development effort of UAD, Logic, Cubase etc is unrealistic. Simply that the $$ aren't there to have massive new devices, workflow and NAMM shows in it.

Any downsides that I've had with Scope in the past few years are well documented in the bug forum where they belong. Maybe they will be fixed or maybe not but they are in no way show stoppers. Other than that use Scope for what it does well & get something else for what it cant do.

Indeed. They're not show stoppers, we're aware of them so they can be worked around.

More to your initial point, during the lifetime of this product the norms for the software ecosystems around us have changed. Today's mainstream/general use software sees a constant stream of updates and UI changes. The perception when this does not occur is that a company is 'not serving their customers' or a product is 'dead'. Perception != reality of course.

In my professional software realms (Audio, 3D, Graphics etc) a constant stream of updates rarely brings major improvements while it does bring the potential for instability, new incompatibilities and/or other major issues. As an example from my 3D work, Blender 3D has a large userbase these days and I often see their users on forums browbeating Autodesk 3DSMax/Maya (and Substance, Houdini) users that their product is 'dead' because it doesn't have new feature X or Y from Blender. What this indicates to me always is that this is a lone home user who tracks 'new shiny features' to stay excited about a product and play with new toys.

There's nothing wrong with that, and there's a huge market out there for software that fits this 'not just changing but changing OFTEN' model. However to look at my example again, finding full production pipelines that rely on blender is rare, it still seems to be used mostly by small software dev firms (especially as a Gaming/VR/AR toolset to import/massage/export models) and for free or crowdfunded projects where the cost of entry to a tool like Blender is a major bonus compared to other toolsets. However the results are also always telling, while the lighting and shading features where Blender has had some programmer's focus tend to be shown in the output of these projects, the overall aesthetic is still instantly identifiable and the tool just isn't as ready for a full pipeline as those users might think.

iZotope is an audio product that seems similar. Overall i would say the quality of their software is great, but the constant stream of major updates is actually an annoyance to someone who uses their products professionally. Major UI changes and increases in horsepower required to fuel those GUI changes, minor usability improvements across multiple generations, and of course a lovely income stream from users who jump on feature-laden marketing updates when they may actually be fine sitting out a few generations. Over the last few years this has turned their product line into a bevy of very similar products that are marketed based more on specific use cases sold at constant firesale prices.

Compare to Scope. I would love to see Holger release an update, just as any of the rest of us would. However my cards have been running almost nonstop for almost 19 years! I certainly would trust ANY of my other software to this degree. Can I do things to make it crash? Sure. Do I know what these things are and avoid them in my workflows? It would be foolish not to.

Another (graphics) comparison again, as it seems Adobe has found an interesting middle ground. Since Creative Cloud launched many people have gotten used to the subscription model (which costs about the same as skipping a generation of updates before--or the equiv of jumping from CS4 to CS6). There is a constant stream of software updates & fixes as well. However the ACTUAL changes in workflow and usability are relatively minor, and the core Adobe tools have actually changed LESS since CS6 than they did with major product updates before. Of course the installed userbase & team of people who create & deliver these tools dwarfs SonicCore by magnitudes making the comparison meaningless in that regard. What I do find interesting however is that the subscription model seems to have reduced the 'featurism' that is present in other modern software and this is something I appreciate as a daily user. And for those that don't derive an income directly off of using Adobe software, there's a fairly large selection of alternatives from open source to those that cost the equivalent of a 1-month fee for Photoshop for a full release.

Still no for sampler on 64 bit?

IO have one 6chip card left hoping one day to use it for samplers.

If they have probem fixing big bugs they can at least fixing the most simples, like for example the inverded LR in Wave Source and similar.. some of this silly bug stay on this platform from long long time.. Just an idea

valis wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:51 pm Indeed. They're not show stoppers, we're aware of them so they can be worked around.

Well,- there´s not a workaround existing for everything.

I think most problems makes ancient 3rd party stuff,- not what comes w/ new SCOPE versions,- except:

For the 1st time, SCOPE samplers don´t work on 64Bit systems anymore,- as also all the related "devices" created by using STS type sampling-OSCs.
That´s indeed something I´d wish to see working again too,- and I truly believe it will work in future,- just because it´s under the hood of S|C SCOPE developement.

But when there won´t come a decision for not supporting some old stuff anymore, I´d see no light on the horizon.
There are devices in the shop which won´t see any relevant updates/upgrades anymore,- and one "brand" is well known for causing issues on XITE.
They prefer selling hardware synths now,- being based on SCOPE SDK b.t.w..

Users expectations rised !
You cannot tell today´s users you won´t be able to use a synth w/ only 1 or 2 voices,- period.

Even ancient CW SCOPE synths work better on XITE,- surprisingly the very old stuff coming w/ SCOPE since decades.
And they sound (good /enough,- at least for me).
There´s no reason not to use p.ex. Blue Synth on XITE and on 64Bit systems w less than 8 (or more) voices vs. the synths from "Z" company.
And Blue Synth sounds good, replacing some analog synths or working as a layer w/ these.
ALL the S|C branded synths work w/ the polyphony the "originals" provided.
I also went back to "Inferno" and others,- and they all do well (when you can play).
These devices were obviously developed in times where keyboardplayers were what they should be ... PLAYERS !

It might be, "music programmers" have different demands though,- but I´m not one of these.
I´m a player.
DAW work in the sense of recording, mixing and mastering isn´t my main task.
In fact, I´d prefer to hire others for that tasks and even I know we have great toys available in SCOPE to get the job done !
They are invited to work w/ my DAW and checking out SCOPE in that department.

So,- Holger D.,- please concentrate on the basic and actual S|C software and hardware stuff for SCOPE v7.1 and make work perfect what you can.
I´d really like to use the STS because Halion and Kontakt was never able to replace AKAI and EMU hardware.
That´s what was used to make the big hits in the golden times of music !
It will still sound the same when we´re able to use it in SCOPE 64Bit again.
Improve MIDI preset system incl. MIDI CC assignments for what you can,- Minimax, Prodyssey, Vectron and V-player, STS and what´s already available.
XITE,- at least for me, should be the new NOAH.
There are tons of soundcards out there using ASIO and it´s "o.k." I can use SCOPE hardware as an audio card too,- but at least my expectation was getting some great soundmodule and audio tool box.
That´s what it is, WHEN total recall incl. MIDI CC assignments per device will work flawlessly.
It´s the most important stuff not working as expected, followed by the sample OSC issue in 64Bit systems.

Since we know,- ALL the FX/dynamic plugins and mixers work well in SCOPE, PCI, XITE, 32 and 64 Bit,- there´s no reason telling the public SCOPE doesn´t work.
But the instruments and MIDI preset system REALLY needs some overhaul.
In fact, it needs perfection/ total recall reliability !

I know there are protected devices which possibly cannot be fixed at all.
Why not getting rid of that s##t and create new ones ?

valis wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:51 pm Compare to Scope. I would love to see Holger release an update, just as any of the rest of us would. However my cards have been running almost nonstop for almost 19 years!

That´s only the cards.

The (3rd party) devices, not working perfect on "the cards" already, are still the same.



Bud

Bud Weiser wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:25 am They prefer selling hardware synths now,- being based on SCOPE SDK b.t.w..

Which synths are you referring to exactly?

Workarounds do exist for STS, although that's a personal thing not an S|C thing. XP32, or there are actually quite a few free samplers now that will load AKAI etc sampler programs (though perhaps not STS).

Valis, why are you so defensive regarding Holger's ineptitude? Let's be honest here, three and a half years since the last update is very slow work. We are not expecting new tools here, just fixes for existing devices. Can you and Gary for once accept that things need to change. I'm expecting the old statement of 'there's only one guy doing this' etc
I won't fall for this next time that's for sure. I feel duped with the release literature of Scope 7. The resurgence of SCOPE, what a joke!

I mean, the obvious answer is that we're defending our turf and these are our forums, so sod off you! Ban hammer ensues and all that. Good on ya 'ole chap! You proved the power hungry admins are at it again!

Anyway, all that aside I'd say based on the emotional content present in your post, it makes sense you think I'm being defensive. Remove the emotional content from yours, and is there still content in my posts that an impartial observer would read as being 'defensive'? Or am I simply stating 'here's how things are, based on my current understanding' so a reasonable person can make a rational decision for themselves.

My cards have all failed now, and I'm on replacements sourced from the larger overall used Scope market. And as someone who is considering upgrading to an Xite so that I am a bit more protected from hardware failures due to age (at least for another 5-10+ years), then it's perhaps sensible that I do have an investment in seeing this platform continue to improve as well. And yet when it comes to what I *do* with the platform, I am simply a realist based on what is currently available, as with any tool. Make sense?

brookesy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:32 am Valis, why are you so defensive regarding Holger's ineptitude? Let's be honest here, three and a half years since the last update is very slow work.

Ineptitude or financially responsible ? If there's no $$ in Scope, Holger has to work on other stuff to put bread on his family table. That's not ineptitude - its just economic reality.

Makes me miss Braincell…

Well, in a way Braincell was proven correct about native overtaking Scope. It only took 20 years

They could make it open source.
Although they may lost some software incomes they’ll sell lots more cards.
With the money earn they could split the code to make some parts private such as plugin store.
They’re a lots that can be done,,,