The New USA

[garyb]

and California is NOT highly polluted, the big cities are.

I'm sure the pollution spreads. Wind/air flow is a wonderful thing.

once again, it's not petroleum that has made areas like Los Angeles'(originally known to the natives as the valley of the smokes) air nasty. autos haven't helped, but my grandfather did definitive studies in the '70s on air pollution, and he identified indusrtial waste as being the prime source for air pollution, NOT autos(which are cleaner than they were back then). naturally, the study was shelved(let's not even get into natural inversion layers that gave LA it's native name). who was my grandfather? only the founding chemist of the entire chemical program at Lockheed...

popular scapegoats...they always want to blame the little guy. we use oil in California because they built it that way! MOST of CA is as clean as anywhere else. SMALL heavily populated areas are polluted. MODERN AGRICULTURE is responsible for much more systemic pollution, and heavy industry is the other pig, just like anywhere else. also, China is the REAL polluted place....

[dawman]

Central California and Northern Nevada have the cleanest air in the western states.
The first day after I moved back up to Tahoe I woke up and smelled the trees, and when we do our monthly family produce drive over the Sierras to Modesto and the roadside stands, we pass Yosemite and Mammoth, and the air is incredible. And El Capitan never ceases to impress.
I fly back to Vegas twice a month and when I wake up there, I smell nothing.
These big cities are where the action is no doubt, but the air is just foul.
Unfortunately I always end up back in Vegas. Maybe this time I'll stay up here a while longer.

[Shroomz~>]

I completely give in on discussing these matters with you Gary, not because of one particular thing or another, but because it's just not worth the time & effort to argue over things that we generally agree on.

[garyb]

i think we're basically in agreement too.

i do like to chop it up, though. thanks for indulging me. it's good when intelligent people like yourself check me and keep me honest...

[Shroomz~>]

I'm off to slash my wrists...

[Shroomz~>]

Anyway Gary, FWIW, you're not 'right' and other people are 'wrong'. It's all subjective & although you make some seriously valid points & generally have a broad perspective & an open mind, that's not to say that you're always correct.

[garyb]

well, it's not ALL subjective.
so we disagree there.
i'm not ALWAYS right or even correct.
so we agree there.

if i don't make some seriously valid points, than who will take that point of view(for what is subjective) and who will bring forward those particular facts(for what is not subjective)?

btw-China's industry is a MUCH bigger user of petroleum than California as a whole(can you say plastics?). in the "private sector", Californians are heavy petrol users because life in CA is based around autos and the Chinese peasantry is too poor for that, although they're doing their best to catch up. once again, the perception is colored by what is said or not said.

[siriusbliss]

Yes, even now per capita China uses way more oil than California, or Texas, or New York, or London, etc. Proportionate poor people in the minority in China outweigh the consumers in Ca., yet China's oil consumption is already way higher in large cities.

Population growth is an illusion.
Overpopulation is a myth.
climate change is a myth - although we DO need to stop dumping shit into the ocean, and we might as well learn to live sustainably before the 'elites' start taxing us for breathing, and blaming us for consuming food that isn't GMO infested. Just stop cutting down trees and regain O2 stability and the supposed CO2 issue goes away.

Taxing people for simply being alive is ludicrous - especially since it's a penalty for living.

Obomba won't do squat accept fill his cabinet with Reagan/Bush/Clinton elitist cronies and carry on all the same policies while all the Rothchild and Rockefeller banks consolidate down to 3 major global banks that run everything.

The Demopubilcans/Republicrats have pulled the veil over our eyes.

Greg

[dawman]

The Demopubilcans/Republicrats have pulled the veil over our eyes.


Actually, they have never done this to me since the '80's. Charlie Wilson was a Liberal Democrat and Reagan was a Republican. Reagan took all of the credit for bringing down the Iron Curtain through his push into Space w/ weapons and high tech, but actually the minority Liberal Democrats were the guys who sponsored the covert operations in Afghanistan.

My how things have changed. The Republicans spend more money and are socializing our industry, and the Liberals want to help the working man. The above statement couldn't be more accurate. It's no veil, it's just most people forget what they learn from history.

This will become more obvious when the ACLU and Republicans team up during the new administration.

Not trying to be the all knowing but Charlie Wilson was elected and financed by the Jewish Lobby from Hollywood, Florida, and New York.
Pretty amazing for a good ol' boy from Texas.

The elite who control much of our way of life are only doing a re shuffling of the deck.
The Liberals will now send our troops to Afghanistan since the Indian Government will draw attention to it's border w/ Pakistan. The chips all fall into place don't they?

They are calling the latest attacks in India an Indian 911..................Hmmm.
Obama has been looking for an excuse to get the Pakistani's out of the tribal area so we could have an excuse to bring in more of our brave young soldiers.
Funny how things just work out some times 'eh.

And they act like a little Battle Cruiser from Russia w/ some miniature ships down by Mexico is a big Deal... We'll just have the CIA & the Drug Cartels take care of that paper hanging son of a bitch from Venezuala. It'll be the new Nicaraugua all over again.

I have been doing '80's music for 6 months so I am right in step...
I never forgot what happened in those years and it is an exact repetition in the same areas too.

They are running out of new ideas, I was thinking a war at the North Pole for the oil reserves under the ice would have been unique.......ahh, Sarah Palin can run that war better than Washington.

[braincell]

Scientists have been measuring the amount of carbon dioxide in the air since 1960. There has been a 22% increase since then. There are chemical markers on CO2 when it is created from the burning of fossil fuels. Global warming is real and it is man made. Even republicans and evangelicals are finally starting to accept this. Don't be stupid. This is going to be a global catastrophe.

[siriusbliss]

Scientists have been measuring the amount of carbon dioxide in the air since 1960. There has been a 22% increase since then. There are chemical markers on CO2 when it is created from the burning of fossil fuels. Global warming is real and it is man made. Even republicans and evangelicals are finally starting to accept this. Don't be stupid. This is going to be a global catastrophe.

Which scientists? The one's that are funded by Dupont, Glaxon, Klein?
Come on - put it together man.
I personally know NOAA scientists that are aware of the re-growth of ice in the arctic, and record-breaking snows in Europe, and just yesterday there was record-breaking rainfall in Baghdad.
DON'T buy into the bs that will bring about an excuse for population control via so-called 'population modification' that will force YOU to pay carbon taxes (part of Obomba's plan by the way) that does NOTHING to resolve the supposed crisis, all to divert you from some OTHER populationo control agenda like someone firing off some sort of biologic attack or whatever. The uneducated inadvertently ignorant innocent's out there are already suffering, and you have the opportunity to wake them up - not feed them the false antithesis that doesn't resolve anything.

It'll be catastrophic alright, but it won't be entirely by man's CO2 emissions. That's a lie.
So is everything else that cloaks population control, taxing people from birth, while we are brainwashed into believing it's our fault.

Man is NOT 100% at cause here.

You should be angry with the elites that try to control population under one excuse or another, rather than just blanketly being angry with being human (and perhaps a misunderstanding of ontology).

We can still strive to live sustainably just to say fuck off to the oligarch's, but not allow ourselves to be reduced to collateral from some steirsheist agenda that does NOTHING to solve situations that you have control over anyways.

The classic hegalian dialectic is to buy into the problem-reaction-solution brainwash where the SOLUTION is actually the problem.

It may be catastrophic for you, but not for me.

Greg

[braincell]

I don't know of any credible scientist who disputes the CO2 measurements. This is a scientific fact. For instance; we know exactly what the size of the earth is and the distance to the moon. You can't argue with a fact. Come on now. I get on a scale and I can see how much I weigh. I have used various scales and I see they all say the same weight. This is science. You don't dispute the facts! arggg this is so f-ing frustrating dealing with you people.

[garyb]

braincell, your info is sooo wrong and flies in the face of reality and logic, but it IS the current official story. polar bears can't and don't swim hundreds of miles to hunt and they don't pull belugas out of the water with one paw and their numbers aren't increasing either. the arctic ice isn't getting thicker than ever and you're gonna die from the heat any moment. most of the top scientists who signed on the the UN declaration of global warming haven't retracted their statements or claimed that their names were forged on the agreement either.

that's what happens after a couple of decades with flouridated water and thermiosol(mercury) in the vaccines. people believe whatever they're told with no personal investigation as long as the info comes from "authorities", as in "authorities claim", or "authorities agree"....

yep, people fervently believed that the world was flat once too.

oh yes, and to keep this thread on track, obama really cares about the common citizen and he's gonna make everyone rich and happy!

[Zer]

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3G-lMZxjo&NR=1

[garyb]

soooo, apple was in chage of rigging votes instead of ibm this time?

[siriusbliss]

soooo, apple was in chage of rigging votes instead of ibm this time?

haha....I get it...


Greg

[garyb]

no, what's even funnier than that is Barack Obama, errr Barry Sartoro making Hillary the #3 exectutive by naming her Sec of State...

[Shroomz~>]

The End is Nigh...

[Shroomz~>]

Hillary, Secretary Of State? The comedy just keeps getting more Hillaryous.

[siriusbliss]

no, what's even funnier than that is Barack Obama, errr Barry Sartoro making Hillary the #3 exectutive by naming her Sec of State...

I think #3 is Speaker of the House, yes?
Sec. of State is #5?

Oh....whatever.... more tragic comedy...

Greg