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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:43 pm
by garyb
stardust wrote:Hey this one is a big loop :D

Easiest way is to give gary a and Greg their gun.
that's right. you don't need to spend all your time controlling us. i don't think either one of us would pee on your carpet or push you aroud because of our weapons. speaking for myself, i'm pretty safe and well behaved.


if you REALLY want to eliminate stupid behavior, especially crimes of passion and you really want to ban something, how about alchohol? that's the stuff that fuels murders...

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:17 am
by alfonso
garyb wrote:

if you REALLY want to eliminate stupid behavior, especially crimes of passion and you really want to ban something, how about alchohol? that's the stuff that fuels murders...


Image

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:02 am
by garyb
yep, Al Capone made his money selling illegal hooch. it was all about drug(alchohol) turf. nice one, but i was speaking about crimes of passion. people usually murder someone with whatever's available in those cases, it's going to be gruesome regardless, gun, knive, bottle, rake, fist, baseball bat, automobile, regardless.

there are a few catagories of murder.

most murder is between gangsters trying to control a money source of enslaved people. guns make this easier, but they murder with knives when guns aren't around. a gun ban won't help here because the only people who will be disarmed are the good citizens who do all the work and take care of their families and behave responsibly.

next there are "crimes of passion". these are people caught cheating on spouses, or getting mad at their friends, mothers, fathers brothers sisters, etc. much of this type of murder is genuine mental illness, the rest is split between extremes in drugs, alchohol, or stupidity. this is one area that would probably be impacted by a ban, but maybe not... which leads to

freak accidents....well...

then there is random violence and victimization. here is another area where the ban will only adversly affect the potential victim. the attacker is not lawful. he has manufactured weapons(it's not secret how to make guns, bullets, whatever), stolen weapons or even seeded weapons. he has what he always has, stand and deliver!

as i keep saying. i see a lot of emotion in this thread, but not much reasoning...


still, a gun ban wouldn't have kept Capone from having guns to shoot things up, either. he had the kind of guns only the police had, but what do you expect from mafioso? they have connections, if you know what i mean. with a gun ban, the government has guns, gangsters have guns, and you and me are in the middle. that's murder in any language.

if anyone has no need for a weapon, i say, "good on you!". it's no fun to always be looking for a fight, i hope i never have to live that way. i don't expect to ever have to use a weapon. i've got a funny story about the time i was held up at gunpoint with a loaded .44 by two guys who wanted beer after hours on christmas eve. they didn't get any beer because they were stupid. instead they robbed the store for a measly $15 :lol: , but i've never even come close to needing to shoot someone, thank god. shooting people is messy, messy, messy...now, i've almost had to club a few guys, and there was that time i beat up a little gang of hoodlums by stripping off my clothes and throwing each item at the brats while foaming at the mouth and cursing them(they ran :) ).....and then there was that time that the gang members who wanted to sit on my porch whenever they wanted to, reacted to my atempt to control the porch with a "it sure would be a shame for this porch to burn down". i just got a can of gasoline, poured it out in front of them and lit it, trapping them between the wall and the flames. no one burns my porch but me. after i put out the fire and said "sorry" while looking confused, they agreed to stay off the porch unless we were visiting.

none of those situations required guns. guns are serious. they are for killing when hunting and for killing people...and shooting at paper tagets or shooting varmints.....there's nothing wrong with shooting 50 caliber rifles at tin cans. there's nothing wrong with shooting a .38 at paper. or a burglar(except the mess). i'd rather have one than not in that moment. it'd likely be sheer luck if i did. that's no reason to ban them though.

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:15 am
by MikeRaphone
Only people who know about reality of guns and how it feels having used them on human beings are soldiers, cops and criminals.
The rest of you is just little boys fantasizing their own little O.K. Corral and how you righteously defend good and defeat evil...

:roll:

Howgh, thus i spoke

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:03 am
by siriusbliss
MikeRaphone wrote:Only people who know about reality of guns and how it feels having used them on human beings are soldiers, cops and criminals.
The rest of you is just little boys fantasizing their own little O.K. Corral and how you righteously defend good and defeat evil...

:roll:

Howgh, thus i spoke
welll....you have spoken!

too many old cowboy movies for you...

...and I'm no little boy fantasizing. At least I'm taking action rather for my and other rights, rather than making shallow ideological statements that only make me look like an ignoramus.

I don't care if you don't like guns, but don't make out to be something I'm not.

I know plenty of good cops and former military that know the truth about gun rights. They don't sit around 'fantasizing', or playing 'OK Corral'.

You sound like a fool.

Greg

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:18 am
by dawman
I fantasize about my synths.

And my guns are for hunting and self defense.

You sir must trust your officials to take care of you and make sure you are well fed and happy,...that's great. I would also someday hope to have such a King or Country.

The reality is that over here, it is a sick society full of worthless laws that noone cares to enforce. If you wish to survive, you must know how to hunt , fish, fuck, and fight. I guess you have seen ethnic cleansing and riots on TV. Until you experience one of those marvelous traits that still take place, your words mean very little.

I respectfully disagree, no offence taken, just a way of life over here.

Guns are like Lawyers I suppose.......everyone hates them until they need one.

Why do you think Russia rolled over Eastern Europe so easily after WWII?

And why do you think Russia rolled out of Afghanistan?

Peace through superior firepower,...plain and simple.

Why am I still alive after race riots and several natural disaters? Gun toting cowards often run at the sound of a sawwed off or hjigh caliber sniper rifle.

They can take my synths and guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands !!

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:57 am
by Shroomz~>
XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:And why do you think Russia rolled out of Afghanistan?
Maybe the Afghans were given guns & training in exchange for something of value which they produce? The guns & training would have helped protect an investment? What particular product fuels Afghanistan's largest export market?

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:02 am
by next to nothing
just got to think of an episode of Louis Theroux, i think its called "survivalists". i recommend it, as i do with his other episodes!

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:04 am
by Shroomz~>
Btw, who's making all the money from gun production, distribution & sales? Someone must be coining it in. :lol: (ok, sorry, that's not funny) :eek:

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:19 am
by siriusbliss
<~Shroomz~> wrote:
XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:And why do you think Russia rolled out of Afghanistan?
Maybe the Afghans were given guns & training in exchange for something of value which they produce? The guns & training would have helped protect an investment? What particular product fuels Afghanistan's largest export market?
yup.

Your future enemies are bred and trained to comply - used as brainwashed canon fodder in a world of greed-mongers.

It's all about protecting drugs and oil, while you're left to defend your ground and protect your family (or someone elses' investment).

Very sad indeed.

G

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:49 am
by braincell
XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:I fantasize about my synths.

And my guns are for hunting and self defense.

If you insist on hunting you can use a crossbow. I am told they are deadly.

When have you used your gun in self defense?

When guns are used, they are rarely ever used for self defense. Usually they are used to kill or rob someone. The fact that a tiny number of people have used them for defense doesn't outweigh the horror that guns inflict on our society. I have mentioned before that my bother was killed by someone wielding a hand gun. As in most gun related deaths, it was at the hands of someone he knew.

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:55 pm
by garyb
braincell-
1.5 MILLION reported gun incidents(not including unreported incidents and hunting). fifteen THOUSAND wrongful deaths. MOST guns drawn were drawn for self defense.

crossbows are illegal. if you brother's "friend" had been armed with a crossbow or knife, your brother still might have been dead. i'm sorry to seem so callous, i really am sorry that you lost your brother....

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:43 pm
by Shroomz~>
Let me get this straight, crossbows & knives are illegal in the US, but guns aren't? Please tell me I'm wrong! :eek:

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:39 pm
by braincell
garyb wrote:braincell-
1.5 MILLION reported gun incidents(not including unreported incidents and hunting). fifteen THOUSAND wrongful deaths. MOST guns drawn were drawn for self defense.

crossbows are illegal. if you brother's "friend" had been armed with a crossbow or knife, your brother still might have been dead. I'm sorry to seem so callous, i really am sorry that you lost your brother....
Crossbows are legal:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... id=9251859

I know people who use them.

Most homicides are domestic violence carried out by boyfriends and husbands. I hardly calling that drawing a gun in self defense. You better check the facts Gary.

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:50 pm
by siriusbliss
<~Shroomz~> wrote:Let me get this straight, crossbows & knives are illegal in the US, but guns aren't? Please tell me I'm wrong! :eek:
varying degrees of 'legality', caliper, availability, checks, and conceal carry depending on State and/or local region/city.

NOT a general legal/illegal on the national level.

Guns and bows in general are legal throughout US and Canada.

Many domestic incidents ARE self defense.

Can't just glom all the numbers together and call it a statistic.

Lost a friend to gunfire 20 years ago. Caught in cross-fire gang fight (which also included avoiding getting hit in a high-speed car chase at an intersection).

Yes, I know there is no argument FOR self-defense in this case, but again - disarming EVERYBODY does NOT PREVENT CRIMINALS/GANGS from getting guns. It's a moot argument.

I GET the ideological, 'civil', 'theological', or argument against ALL guns, but it is just NOT feasible.

Brainwashing the populace into greed, corruption, drugs, etc. is a deeper issue that needs to be addressed.

Greg

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:24 pm
by Me$$iah
In the UK it is illegal for an under18 to buy a knife.

This is fucked up.

It means, that a 16 year old girl with a baby and a house*, is not allowed to buy a knife in order to cut food. Seriously, this is fundamentally wrong.

A knife is a tool, not just a weapon.

Tho interstingly, you can quite legally buy a croosbow in the UK.

But in the UK the government are stepping even quicker towards a totalitarian state than the US, this is probably because the governments can do what they like, theyve got all the guns.

And as siriusbliss has said, if you outlaw guns, then only outlaws have guns.
Whilst that sound great it means that the criminals have got a gun and you havent, does that make anyone feel safe.

*there are lots of 16-17 yrold moms with 'council' flats in the UK.

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:34 pm
by siriusbliss
IMO the UK is rapidly becoming the prototype for how the globalists/elitists/conspirators (or whatever) will control populations.

Taxes on mileage driven in cars, spycams everywhere, including people sitting in a room somewhere watching you to make sure you don't drop something on the ground (or congregate too long like in the old USSR), and then yelling out at you.

It's happening fast, but not so fast that people catch on.

New York is next.

Hegalian Dialectic dictates that those who benefit the most are the culprits.
Police state is capitalizing on places that have come under attack in the past decade, while increasingly eradicating your sovereign rights, making you take off your shoes at the airport while they leave the borders wide open.

Greg

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:39 pm
by Me$$iah
The U.K. is the prototype, China is the design stage.

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:33 am
by braincell
Give me a totalitarian state if it means good free education (including college) free health care for all and no guns!

To hell with all you people who don't care about anyone but yourselves!

I am sick and tired of all these people who don't want the government to do anything!!!

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:11 am
by siriusbliss
braincell wrote:Give me a totalitarian state if it means good free education (including college) free health care for all and no guns!

To hell with all you people who don't care about anyone but yourselves!

I am sick and tired of all these people who don't want the government to do anything!!!
****

What the government IS doing, it does VERY poorly, expensively, and very low quality.

And stop trying to make us out to be selfish. That's ridiculous.
You have NO CLUE who or what I am, or how I act in the world, so don't try to cram me into your narrow world views.

Sorry, but the ideological totalitarian state will not work, has NOT EVER worked - (Nazi Germany, USSR, etc.), and most likely never will because of the greed and corruption overlay of the government 'officials'. Sure, you can live in Cuba and get free healthcare and 'education', but good luck trying to compose music, use the internet, travel at will, etc.

I'd prefer to just stay healthy and educate myself anyways.

Greg