Sick and tired of messed up presets

stw · Post by **stw** » Sat May 17, 2003 10:00 am

Not much response here on that issue. Too bad...
Anyway, if somebody else is trapped in that bug maybe we can mark out some occasions that cause the errors.
I discovered that the problem only appears with "old" modules which haven't been updated with my ModularIII Upgrade. E.g. if i throw in a 4-1 switch (up from a certain point) in my patch i get the error next time i reload it. If i take the 6-1 switch instead at the same time everything is fine. The 6-1 switch has been updated with the ModIII update in that case. The same happens with other old/new comparisons.
Strange thing is that the same modules don't cause any troubles in an earlier stage of the patch. So maybe the overall amount of modules adds some oddities too.
It would be nice if anyone could verfy that.

Regards, Stefan

[ This Message was edited by: stw on 2003-05-17 11:06 ]

stw · Post by **stw** » Sat May 17, 2003 10:16 am

just some specs to compare:

Basic Installation: SFP3.1a incl. Modular2
Updated to SFP3.1c
Upgrade Modular2 to ModularIII

Good modules are ModIII ones. Date is 11.09.2002
Bad modules are from Modular2 installation. Date is 26.04.2002

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sat May 17, 2003 1:00 pm

wow, surprised to see this thread is still alive. Anyhow, stw, I think we're in a very similar situation. Once it's messed up, nothing seems to fix it. I contacted CW support and sent them my messed up patch, but they still haven't replied. Maybe I should try mailing them again.

stw · Post by **stw** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:59 am

On 2003-05-17 14:00, kensuguro wrote:
wow, surprised to see this thread is still alive. Anyhow, stw, I think we're in a very similar situation. Once it's messed up, nothing seems to fix it. I contacted CW support and sent them my messed up patch, but they still haven't replied. Maybe I should try mailing them again.

Hi Kensuguro,
i still hope that we can find a workaround for that simply because there're some user who don't have these probs. My latest patch published here, the Monomorph, could be opened by other people without any error while i can't! Strange isn't it? I suspect different installations or at least different modules causing the trouble for that reason. Maybe we can help ourselves a little bit and maybe it'll become more interesting for creamware investigating that issue if we could sort out where the problem can be located.
The easiest solution would be if we simply could exchange modules from a working installation if there should exist different versions. Checking that is a simple and not very time consuming task which is worth a try IMHO.

Regards, Stefan

roy thinnes · Post by **roy thinnes** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:24 am

yesterday, after trouble (again) with a rather big patch I made a simple test:Because it was some switches and lfos that didn't move on preset changes, I made a simple patch with just 8 (1in8)switches and two multilfoB without connecting all modules.Created two presets with different values, saved preset list and the device.Removed the patch and reloaded it, everything ok.
Then I added 8 more switches to the patch, changed values of the new switches, created new presets,saved p.list and device ->here we go again.Strange that one of the eight new modules did the preset change alright (as also the 8 (1in8)modules I had in the beginning).The others had been "messed up", also replacing them, again creating new presets (saving preset list,saving the module) didn't help.
That would mean that you are not allowed to do any(?) change of the patch after you created it.The question mark is because I think that only some modules are concerned as stw said, maybe only some of the old modules esp. lfo and switches as I experienced in that big patch I started from.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:11 am

i have made a list of the ModIII patches i have problems with not recognising preset files or only a % of them. They are:

Drawbie One
GranuLFOSynth
Zen
atari empire
Synculator
seq quad pad
Carmen

and also Spectramod which won't even load.

i also had a problem with MSO 01, but when i redownloded it it was fine again. i haven't tried clearing out the others yet and redownloading them all as i'm on slowband.

Anyone else have problems with the same patches above or is it random? i've never had any problems with the CW patches. Is there a link?

Mr Arkadin

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-07-19 10:12 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:14 am

i have made a list of the ModIII patches i have problems with not recognising preset files or only a % of them. They are:

Drawbie One
GranuLFOSynth
Zen
atari empire
Synculator
seq quad pad
Carmen

and also Spectramod which won't even load.

i also had a problem with MSO 01, but when i redownloded it it was fine again. i have tried clearing out the others yet and redownloading them all as i'm on slowband.

Anyone else have problems with the same patches above or is it random? i've never had any problems with the CW patches. Is there a link?

Mr Arkadin

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:00 pm

I made maybe 10 or 15 patches and all of them have messed up presets. The patches still load but only the last preset appears and no other will work...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:07 pm

I have a bunch of mod2 & mod3 patch i made for myself, and the ONLY times i get this xx% compatible, is if you move ANY of the module inside the patch, or change ANY of the connections.

Otherwise, it doesn't happens...

First do your patch, all connections have to be definitive...

Second work on your presets...

And all will work...

What i describe is totaly reproducable.

I don't think it's a bug.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:53 pm

Just moving a module in the patch without changing connections creates incompatibilities?

I don't think this can be the cause of all my problems though... I should test more, but from what I remember the slightest change in the parameters seemed to screw things up... I'll do more testings and report back...

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:51 pm

i don't even touch people's ModIII patches, just use the presets, and the preset file still gets corrupted, so i don't think that's the reason.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:13 pm

Maybe they were allready corrupted in some way by the creator, which most probably was still perfecting his creation!

No, seriously, i don't have this behavior... Maybe it happen cuz of the way you first updated sfp install?

Have you installed from scratch sfp? Have you copied previous mod directory over some writing old modules over new one's? I don't know? But the patch i create don't act like this...

Most of the patch i d/l don't either... Only some of them...

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:33 pm

Well, there are other issues with ModIII that have never been addressed, like any patches using wavs just make white noise. This is the Mac version i'm talking about BTW and other maccers have had this problem. My fear is that it won't be addressed in the future (for OS9 users anyway) as i assume SFP4 will jump straight to OSX, so this version will never have, say, an interim SFP3.2/OS9 version, ie. i will never have a properly working ModIII till i go to OSX, which i'm not rushing into just yet as eveything else works pretty much OK.

Nikibuzz · Post by **Nikibuzz** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:46 am

I found that when I got the % error, I simply resaved each preset individually and resaved the preset list and that solved the problem for me.

I did this with three seperate patches so therefore it is reproducable.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:21 pm

You mean that you redo all the knob tweaking to get close to what you remember about how patches that won't open sound? And then resave them?

Nikibuzz · Post by **Nikibuzz** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:58 pm

All of my patches opened but they did not sound correct.

So I removed all the extra modules that I added and they all returned to the original sound as before.

After that I saved each preset and then re added the modules and continued making more presets.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:41 pm

There are so many theories on this it's almost getting like an urban myth. Maybe one of the new CW people might want to put in an official version of the problem here ?

But in my experience if you have written some presets, then change the device by adding or subtracting a module, then you will get the % incompatible warning.

If you simply resave the device the warning will remain.

Sometimes the "old" sounds you made will still sound OK, but only because the knob position of the new modules are in the last position you were fiddling with. The next time you open the device maybe this won't be the case so the presets sound different.

In other words the new modules' knobs have no fixed position.

To get rid of the warning and stabilise the presets you must call up *every* preset and resave it. You don't need to change anything, just individually save.

( Sometimes I like the random feel of the sounds that were made for a slightly different configuration - sort of like a "randomise" function. )

Well, that's what works for me...

stw · Post by **stw** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 5:57 am

just to bump this thread

On 2003-07-21 23:41, Spirit wrote:
There are so many theories on this it's almost getting like an urban myth. Maybe one of the new CW people might want to put in an official version of the problem here ?

unfotunatly there's absolutly no response on that until now. Maybe someone else got any infos? Plese let me know...

To get rid of the warning and stabilise the presets you must call up *every* preset and resave it. You don't need to change anything, just individually save.

( Sometimes I like the random feel of the sounds that were made for a slightly different configuration - sort of like a "randomise" function. )

Well, that's what works for me...

yeah, that's the lowest level of preset probs that could be solved in that way by chance. But just for the record, this works only in certain cases. I have a bunch of patches which are still messed up or ignore the settings even if you create fresh preset files and twaek every knob on the panel. That still makes Modular useless for me

To bad because i really like Flexor...

Regards, Stefan

Ben Walker · Post by **Ben Walker** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:20 am

Hi there,
funnily enough I spent some time with Monomorph trying to recreate this problem. sure enough, even when I save the patch as a new patch and create a new set of presets, the problem still persists. I don't get 'these presets are only x% compatible' but I do get presets which don't store all the values of the modules in the patch, so the patches don't sound the same when you reload them. In particular I noticed that the AND/OR/XOR module bottom left doesn't get it's value saved, but I'm sure there are others.

This is a great shame as it seems like you've put a LOT of effort into building this file, recording sound examples, trying to fix the preset problem, etc. I certainly had great fun playing with the patch whilst trying to get the presets to work, but in its current state its not usable.

Even if we don't get a fix soon from CW, it would be nice to have some advice on how best to operate in order to try and avoid this happening.

Cheers,
Ben

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:23 am

I called Support. He says I have a bad install and to reinstall it.

[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2003-09-29 16:58 ]