Cubase & Pulsar : Enough for a professional Studio?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:55 am

You can do pro work with just a Pulsar but the Big Mixer or the so called "Pro Mixer" will *NEVER* get the same quality of sound as a Neve console! The same goes for all the effects. someone mentioned that hits have been recorded on ADATS, the recorder is not the important thing. It's the mixing board, and outboard effects that count! As for the guy who says big studios only have all this equipment because clients demand it... that is just hogwash. The reason clients demand it is because that equipment in the hands of pro engineers is the only way to get the highest quality sound. A Pulsar would be nice to have in a big studio but not a substitute for it!

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:47 am

i'll say it again.
it depends what you're doing.that "loser" beck recorded his first big hit cd on a 4 track cassette! how does that compare to neve?why do you need a new $750,000 euphonix if the neve sounds so great? fools chase specs. artists use tools to make art.(yes, nice gear IS nice!)
there is an old saying in jamaica which once more bears repeating;"don't watch the tool,watch the man who's behind it!" also, it most certainly DOES matter what the recording medium is! the medium (canvas,wood board,cardboard,paper) is as important as effects and mixing(paint) and mics and technique(brushes).
duh.
i know personally,(well not like roommates but well enough) the owners and or operators of ocean way and sound castle,two of the biggest,most expensive studios in l.a. and i have seen why they upgrade WORKING gear with the new stuff and why they have not bought gear that they liked but that ignorant clients(who know what they like but have no REAL understanding of the reality of the usefullness of ANYTHING in particular)aren't demanding.
don't be a braindead autonamaton who uses something because someone else used it or because someone told him it was the best or because some "expert" in a mag or otherplace said it's a must.trust your ears.

also,i make money with my studio 'most every day.doesn't this make me and my studio "professional"?

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2002-03-13 09:49 ]

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:27 pm

Garyb, that stuff u just said is typical for the low-budget guy.
"pro" means "pro" regardles what u think about cubase or pulsar...

snoopy4ever · Post by **snoopy4ever** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 2:31 pm

On 2002-03-13 00:18, garyb wrote:
...... for sonic QUALITY(whatever that is) a daw based around a cw card is MORE than sufficient to use for pro apps.(cw won an oscar for sound in gladiator remember? ain't that pro?)still, you might want some other outboard gear for some sonic VARIETY..........

That's what I'm looking for... I use a M-Audio DAW, connected to a Digital Mixer (an affordable one) with effects and dynamics.
With a CW card added imagine all the things I'll be able to do with such a gear.

I just can´t wait to Paypal send me the verification numbers to activate my account, in order to get the Pulsar II from Sub.

[ This Message was edited by: snoopy4ever on 2002-03-13 14:34 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 2:55 pm

garyb and AirPollo, I think you guy's battle is a bit too "up there" for raboz's question... It's interesting, tho. Hey, AirPollo, how ya doin'? Haven't seen you for a while. Last time I saw you, you were upset about Pulsar.. So what happened afterwards?

And getting back to Raboz's question about sync and audio quality.. As with sync, I have problems.. I've had syn problems with every sequencer program that I've used. Maybe it's my Triton and Nord Modular.. I don't know.. But for some reason, the clock jitters and jotters and in the end, even if I have a straight 16 beat, I get an African polyrhythm. (well, a bit exaggerated of course

) It happens no matter what software, motherboard, or CPU I use. But many people say cubase is rock solid. For me, though, sync is in my dreams. (you ARE talking about MIDI sync right?) I can never get pulsar synth's internal LFOs to sync properly either. It's something that I've just given up on. I really do wonder why I'm cursed with this.

Audio quality.. Pulsar records just fine. It's more about DA converters and the recording software (in this case, Cubase) You'd have to be an audiophile to tell the difference. Either way, it's better to adjust your composing style to be independent of these microscopic details. Oh yeah, the question was about building a studio.. Well, seeing that you're not going down the "standard" lane, it should be enough. I mean, you're not going to be expecting clients that want ABSOLUTE quality right? But for hi quality, pro quality, commercial quality, this should be enough. You can think about Neve consoles later on.. quite later on..

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-03-13 14:58 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:21 pm

always a well reasoned post from japan.i am a low budget guy.i like high end stuff as well as anything tho! still, you can't buy love.........................

only rent.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:07 am

I've used VST and Pulsar for a while and had released two professional works. I like this setup very much. From version 5.0 and on, VST is rather stable, little problems. I think that what you can own is important, but the MOST important of all is TO LEARN TO USE WHAT YOU'VE GOT.

Many, I mean MANY people in the first Pulsar Forum were everyday completing and saying that Pulsar was awful, etc. The time has passed away and people are learning how to use their systems and so complains have vanished almost completely. Setup is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT as well as KNOELEDGE of your gear and software!

Honestly, it doesn't really matter what you choose to work with, just LEARN IT!!! For me Cubase is more than enough of a tool for professional use. Anyway, the only thing you have to do is to wait a bit, cos Creamware and Steinberg are getting better by day, you can be completely sure you are going to have a TREMENDOUS setup that will always be coupled together.

The support of Creamware for VST is going to grow all the time, and the support of Steinberg for Creamware will certainly be implemented as there are too many people interested in this wonderful marriage hardware-software, Pulsar-Cubase.

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:47 pm

Unless of course Creamware fall into a heap and go bankrupt and no further development is ever made.

Sorry - not quite a serious thought. It's the risk you take with any company.

Now let me fall asleep and dream Pulsar!

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 12:19 pm

Have you paid attention to this forum? Do you really thing Pulsar is going to die? I don’t think so, it’s just beginning…

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 4:54 pm

Pulsar is going to bloom beyond imagination? That's what I heard!

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 5:00 pm

But to answer the question, it just depends on what you plan to do in your studio... And the physical studio space is as important as the equipment in it. For the converters, depending of the work you want to do, there is a possibility to rent high-end (I mean high-end) D/A converters (and mics). Those in the cards appear very acceptable, but again: what are your endeavours?
I totally agree with Nestor: know your tools very well and this can avoid many pitfalls...

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 6:53 am

I used to be afraid that Creamware would go under but they have done some great things lately. The Luna has a great price, next the "Scope Fusion" platform, excellent idea and the "Noah" is revolutionary. Now I only worry that a larger company such as Roland will buy Creamware and ruin it.

raboz · Post by **raboz** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:25 am

Hi all

I've read all you kind answer and tryed to better understand.

It seemed to me to understand that the next high-quality level after Pulsar II is ProTools.
So I read something about Protools and TDM as Air_Pollo suggested and realized that :

A) Protools V5 do NOT even own all the modern ( and thus Necessary ) MIDI function but only a
restricted set of them ( PulsarII + Cubase ensure a perfect MIDI sync and advanced MIDI function, am I wrong ? )

B) This so-called fantastic Protools/TDM world is a ( fully upgradable ) DSP system with a dedicated Recording/Editing/Mixing Software where you can run real_time plug-in
(Pulsar II + XTC + Cubase ensure the usage of a huge amount of real-time plug in a DSP environment and, in addition, with high-quality converter and a wide variety of connection/sync options, am I wrong ? )

C) Protools/TDM can be used with external mixing gear such as Mackie, Pulsar Too!

So can I say that
D) A professional Pulsar II + XTC + Cubase environment costs less then half of a professional Protools enivronment ( the 24Mix Plus Solution with DSP board, almost 13.000Us$ )?

E) The two system offers similar DSP processing power and quality on similar Host Machine?

F) What Makes the real professional difference? Converter ? Host Machine Stability ( Mac Vs IBM )? remember that ProTools V5 24mixPlus works only on Win NT 4.0.

OK... Now ATTACK me!

Cheers!

junklight · Post by **junklight** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:48 am

One of the key things about Pro Tools is that most studios use it. Therefore its easy for someone to take a project from studio to studio - say recording in one location and mixing in another.

You have got to remember that a working studio is a fairly conservative enviroment - the old if it works don't fix it adage rings true. Studio downtime is money down the pan.

I think the real key thing here is what are you going to be doing with your studio.

Sound quality wise and features wise I think that the puslar more than makes it..

mark

junklight · Post by **junklight** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:58 am

"Setup is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT as well as KNOELEDGE of your gear and software!"

This is true for any music equipment - in the hands of a skilled operator you can get great results out of almost anything - and by the same token of you put your average PC music maker into a Pro studio with a neve desk or whatever they would still make medicore sounding stuff. (by the same logic a skilled operator with top notch stuff should be fantastic - for example the last Jon Hassell record - fascinoma - Ry Cooder did the whole thing on top notch analog gear and it must be said it sounds incredible).

Given a limited budget though things are not hopeless - you simply(!) need to learn to get the best out of your gear.

One of the things I find really useful is Sound on Sound magazine (uk but you can read it <a href="http://www.sospubs.co.uk">online</a>). Each month they have a top producer talking about how they made a recent big record - you can pick up a lot of tips and tricks.

mark

_________________
__________________________________________
junklight - dark experimental electronics
http://www.junklight.com

[ This Message was edited by: junklight on 2002-04-05 02:59 ]

[ This Message was edited by: junklight on 2002-04-05 03:00 ]

Drum-Maker · Post by **Drum-Maker** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:03 pm

Hi all pulsarians,

I'm sure that this days, the outboarding solution is a bad solution (on my point of view), because the signal is going through cables and cables mixers ... etc. etc... .
Ok if you use spdif or optical, there are no probs, but the outboarding racks are all analog.

I think you can make good sounds with a soundblaster AWE 64 Gold and then you can use a lot of plugs that helps in quality. And finally a mastering program as T-Racks.

It is clear that if you will an Professional environment, a good outbording is still necessary, but for production (always on my point of view) outboarding is as get the money in the hair!!

If you look at any magazin, you can see a decrease of the prices of tc works, alesis, behringer , and so on ... ... Just because of "software outboarding" ... And when we are able to use cubase in sync with another pc then ... ..... .. .

Regards!! And happy Beats

dxl · Post by **dxl** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:07 pm

actually it will be good to let roland buy creamware.
noah, revolutionary.... hope so
Luna has a great price? compare to what?

On 2002-03-18 06:53, braincell wrote:
I used to be afraid that Creamware would go under but they have done some great things lately. The Luna has a great price, next the "Scope Fusion" platform, excellent idea and the "Noah" is revolutionary. Now I only worry that a larger company such as Roland will buy Creamware and ruin it.

dxl · Post by **dxl** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:10 pm

that is main reason makes it so expensive, yet it does sound better than creamware's but they are in different level.

On 2002-04-05 02:48, junklight wrote:
One of the key things about Pro Tools is that most studios use it. Therefore its easy for someone to take a project from studio to studio - say recording in one location and mixing in another.

FreiFlug · Post by **FreiFlug** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:05 am

Hi guys,
what about a contest between CW users and the others?

Okay its a little bit funny and not easy to do. But raboz and other would be able to decide

!!!
So i think that you should know what you really want to do with your equipment.
If i had to work in time and had enough place i probably would buy hardwareequipment.
But I AM REALLY HAPPY

WITH MY CW-EQUIPMENT and you are able to do a really good job with it!!! Its for me the best i could get for a good price, little room and good work! Furthermore i don´t believe that most of the people who post here are able to hear the difference between the CW and a much more expansive high end studio audioquality if the same good engineer makes the music/sound or everything else.
So far.
I am furthermore very amused

by you dxl. I´m not here in this forum for a long time but i only saw negative posts from you. Why do you spend so much time on this forum when you don´t really want to work with CW-cards

??? But anyway some of your posts are very interesting at all.

Cheers FreiFlug

Eurocide · Post by **Eurocide** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:49 am

You can do a whole album inside a notebook using just software synths and

GET A MAJOR RECORD COMPANY CONTRACT!

VNV-Nation proved this!
And as far as I know Björk did the same (but I'm not sure).

So use what you want and use it wisely.

EC-HQ.