Xite-1 BNC Scope 7

[Xite Knight v2.0]

I would be very grateful if you could help me.

I mailed Sonic Core in January 2019 to ask for help with this BNC issue.
I have not received a reply from them yet, but when I do, I will let you know.

[jksuperstar]

So nitri has it working with XITE as master, yayajohn has XITE working as slave.

Perhaps a new project file needs to be created once the XITE changes BNC direction? Not sure, just hazarding a guess.

[yayajohn]

Yeah sorry Bud. It's Win7 64bit. Seems to be working just fine.

[Bud Weiser]

Yeah sorry Bud. It's Win7 64bit. Seems to be working just fine.

Yikes !
Why sorry ?
This is the best news for me !

I just built a new rack w/ XITE-1, S|C blackface A16U (connections will be Z-Link), Steinberg Midex-8, one of my Sycologic M16&M16R MIDI matrix switchers and 4U Z97 PC running Win 7 Pro 64Bit.
Have to do all the wireing now and nothing left over from my former studio fits.
But when ready, it will be the centerpiece of my new rig starting small because lack of room, but growing "startype" again in future.

So,- just to be sure,- you say, I´d be able using XITE-1 and A16U, both as slaves and being clocked from ext. masterclock device ?
Which clock-/sample rate do you use ?
Did you make new projects for your setup you described above or did all run w/ the old projects too ?

Up to now I refused buying the Mutec device because I understood it won´t work w/ XITE-1 as a slave.
But when it´s possible and runs stable, I´d invest the money now.

thank you



Bud

[Xite Knight v2.0]

I don’t wanna be the partykiller, but z-link won’t work unless your Xite is set as master

[yayajohn]

Well fwiw, I don't know if it is supposed to work this way but it does. The Xite-1 appears to send the clock thru to Z-Link
Lucid BNC out to Xite-1 in slave, Z-link to A16U also set to slave. Changing the Lucid master clock from 44.1 to 48khz changes the clock to the Xite-1 and also the A16U. No problems with the sound.
This is also how I am clocking the TC Fireworx thru AES/EBU from the Xite-1

[Bud Weiser]

Well fwiw, I don't know if it is supposed to work this way but it does. The Xite-1 appears to send the clock thru to Z-Link
Lucid BNC out to Xite-1 in slave, Z-link to A16U also set to slave. Changing the Lucid master clock from 44.1 to 48khz changes the clock to the Xite-1 and also the A16U. No problems with the sound.
This is also how I am clocking the TC Fireworx thru AES/EBU from the Xite-1

Thank you !
So, you DON´T feed BNC WC into A16U,- only into XITE which then is connected via Z-Link to A16U which is set up as slave too ?
Up to now I planned connecting every single piece of digital gear offering WC In to my upcoming master clock device, but maybe that´s not urgently necessary ?
Is it the same w/ a SCOPE PCI card, Sync Plate and Creamware A16U,- which is my 2nd SCOPE rig then ?

Connecting XITE and SCOPE PCI to BNC WC only and using Z-Link/ADAT for the A16Us saves 2 BNC Outs on a master clock,- not bad.

But I´m also irritated because of "Xite Knight 2.0" post above.

How comes there are such extremely different experiences ?
User error ?
Works on some systems but not all (by whatever reason) ?



Bud

[yayajohn]

Bud; I don't really have an answer for you. I initially thought I was going to have a BNC to the A16U but I believe that connection is only for using ADAT not Z-link.
Don't really know how stable this type of rig is, don't care. Seems stable enough - no clicks or pops.
Before BNC I ran a DigimaxFS as clock master thru the Xite and out to the rest of my gear AES,PCI ADAT, A16 z-link all as slave, never had any problems. When I got a second Digimax, I knew it was time to BNC it up with a master clock.
My experience is the Xite does not do so well as a master clock but works great as slave to pass the clock through. Apparently others have had good experiences with Xite as master.

"Is it the same w/ a SCOPE PCI card, Sync Plate and Creamware A16U,- which is my 2nd SCOPE rig then ?"

I would imagine so. Connect a BNC cable from your master clock to the PCI sync plate, set to slave and select the connection (source 6 or source 7 on my system) Then set your A16U to Z-link from the PCI cards and it should sync up. maybe it's different on the PCI though, I don't know as I am using ADAT on my PCI system.

[Bud Weiser]

Bud; I don't really have an answer for you. I initially thought I was going to have a BNC to the A16U but I believe that connection is only for using ADAT not Z-link.

Hey,- lots of useful info,- thx !
At least I can copy your setup(s) and see what works best w/ my system then.

"Is it the same w/ a SCOPE PCI card, Sync Plate and Creamware A16U,- which is my 2nd SCOPE rig then ?"

I would imagine so. Connect a BNC cable from your master clock to the PCI sync plate, set to slave and select the connection (source 6 or source 7 on my system) Then set your A16U to Z-link from the PCI cards and it should sync up. maybe it's different on the PCI though, I don't know as I am using ADAT on my PCI system.

That´s all good to know because I got a Sync Plate some time ago and never used up to now.
Because I couldn´t find an acceptable deal for a Z-Link plate ´til today, ADAT will be the connction for PCI and A16U,- same as your´s.
So when ready, the final rig will be:

XITE-1 w/ S|C A16U and Z-Link, SCOPE v7 64Bit, Win7 Pro SP1 x64
SCOPE PCI w/ Sync plate, CW A16U and ADAT, SCOPE v7 32Bit, WinXP SP3 (or Win7 SP 1 x86) - I´d have both options.

That´s the S|C and Creamware department,- and there´s some more I won´t discuss here atm because it will be added later.

I now wonder how many BNC I/Os I´ll need on the new masterclock device because it has impact on the investment.
I guess, for the above S|C and Creamware scenario,- I´d be fine w/ 2 BNC Out to XITE-1 and Sync plate,- right ?
And when I´d add a RME card/machine,- a 3rd BNC out might be all I need,- yes ?

Black Lion Micro clock mk2 https://www.thomann.de/gb/black_lion_au ... ImVuIn0%3D ?

Next better, but also more expensive options are Black Lion Micro Clock mk 3 https://www.thomann.de/gb/black_lion_au ... ImVuIn0%3D

or Mutec Mc-3+ Smart Clock https://www.thomann.de/gb/mutec_mc_3_sm ... ImVuIn0%3D

For the latter, I wonder if I´ll ever need all the inputs, reclocking features and such ... maybe never.



Bud

[garyb]

do NOT run sync in series. sync must be parallel. that will tell you how many outputs your clock distributor will require.

for MOST people, it doesn't matter that much what clock you use. the main thing is to have only one clock. the differences between clocks CANNOT be accurately gauged with normal bedroom acoustics. most devices have very good clocks. we are talking about negligible differences to all but the most accurate listening environments and monitoring systems. i am reminded of audiophile IEC power cords that cost 100's of dollars. snake oil indeed. the clock is not the difference between an excellent production and a shitty one, especially in the home environment. the main reason to use a good external clock is to sync more than 2 or 3 devices.

some clock blah, blah, blah:
https://www.drawmer.com/uploads/lit/clock-sync.pdf

[yayajohn]

Thanks for piping in Gary. That is reassuring.
Bud; I searched for a long time on Ebay for a master clock. The one I got was super cheap Lucid $50USD but it will not do 96khz.
There was one Lucid I saw that was a distributor only so I think it would work well with a clock like the Black Lion that only has 2 outputs.
The Apogee Big Ben seem priced very reasonably for what you get in terms of quality and flexibility.
Oh yeah, and if you do go with a Lucid. Make sure it comes with a power cord. They are seriously proprietary and will cost you a lot of money to find one.

[Bud Weiser]

do NOT run sync in series. sync must be parallel. that will tell you how many outputs your clock distributor will require.

Gary, thx for chiming in ...
But what I wanna know is not about "serial" or "parallel",-
It´s about 2 different SCOPE systems working in parallel, but both will have a A16U (S|C blackface and Creamware) in THEIR chain,- 1 conncted to XITE-1 via Z-Link,- the other connected to PCI via ADAT.
And one system is 64Bits,- the other is 32Bits (might be negligible).

So,- when I have a 3 BNC-Out masterclock,- can I run:

a) XITE-1 w/ A16U via Z-Link
b)Scope PCI w/ A16U via ADAT
c) RME card w/ WC I/O ports and 8 I/O AD/DA converter connected via ADAT

all together in sync AND as slaves (to that 3 BNC-Out - masterclock) ?
or do I have to buy a masterclock w/ 6 BNC-Out because of the AD/DA converters being conncted to a) , b) and c) above ?

The idea is connecting a)XITE, b)SCOPE PCI/Syncplate and c)RME to BNC as slaves,- while connected converters,- 1 individually for XITE, SCOPE PCI and RME,- work as slaves too via ADAT and Z-Link (depending on setup).

I think I´m fine w/ just a stable clock and enough outputs,- not being interested in unnecessary features because I don´t run a studio for hire in THIS location and a.t.m..

So,- are 3 BNC-outputs what I really need,- or do I need 6 ?

the main thing is to have only one clock.

YESSS !

... the differences between clocks CANNOT be accurately gauged with normal bedroom acoustics.

What´s a bedroom ?

... most devices have very good clocks.

Yes, my old NUENDO brand (RME 8 I/O) AD/DA w/ ADAT & TDIF offers a very good clock, better than the Hammerfall card itself.
But it´s related to my old Mac system running Emagic Logic 6.4.3.,- which I think is the best MIDI system incl. sysex support and interactive notation (-MIDI) editor (I more or less know from old ATARI times).

So far, we´re talkin´ about 3 systems, not always running simultaneously, but I want the comfort, powering ´em up on demand w/o rewireing.

I also think XITE-1 has a clock good enough to run w/ a DAW and posibly even w/ 1 A16U connected.
At least, I used XITE w/ DAW and SCOPE 5.1 in the past,- but NOT w/ a A16U connected,- and it was all 32Bit ...
Same rules for SCOPE PCI I used together w/ XITE, connected via ADAT,- but NO A16U connected in addition to SCOPE PCI as well.

But NOW, there are the A16Us,- because I want to replace analog mixers for some of my outboard,- mostly keys and modules.
I don´t have the room for all the analog gear anymore,- even it still exists in stock being unusable for the time being.

... we are talking about negligible differences to all but the most accurate listening environments and monitoring systems.

I´m not talking about esoteric scenarios ...
It´s all about I wanna use the above 3 systems in a star-type configuration in sync and w/ the lowest possible additional investment.
When I´ll need just only 3 BNC outs to achieve and can connect my converters nonethless,- I´d be happy just only to buy a Black Lion mk2 B-stock for about 350 bucks.
But I also don´t want a crash landing, you know ...

i am reminded of audiophile IEC power cords that cost 100's of dollars. snake oil indeed. the clock is not the difference between an excellent production and a shitty one, especially in the home environment.

... the main reason to use a good external clock is to sync more than 2 or 3 devices.

THIS (see above)



Bud

[Bud Weiser]

...
Bud; I searched for a long time on Ebay for a master clock. The one I got was super cheap Lucid $50USD but it will not do 96khz.
There was one Lucid I saw that was a distributor only so I think it would work well with a clock like the Black Lion that only has 2 outputs.

Well, the "outdated" and b-stock Black Lion mk2 has already 3 BNC outputs.
I also looked for a Lucid,- also to understand what you´re talking about,- but recognized they don´t manufacture any masterclocks at all anymore.
Used might be the only< chance, but I didn´t find one here.

The Apogee Big Ben seem priced very reasonably for what you get in terms of quality and flexibility.

Yep, I´ve found a used one for EUR 699,-,- but then I can buy the Mutec which offers all the for me obsolete inputs and features too and for a similar price NEW, incl. VAT and shipping from Thomann.
When I buy NEW here, I get the 19% VAT back, you know ...

I also wonder if used and "aged" masterclocks lose accuracy/precision (or wht you call it ...) after years/decades.
I don´t have experience w/ it and have to find out,- and the "Big ben" is a 15 year old device (or older,- considering when it was designed/constructed) .
Up to now I think, I better buy new,- no ?

Oh yeah, and if you do go with a Lucid. Make sure it comes with a power cord. They are seriously proprietary and will cost you a lot of money to find one.

thx again for that tipp and your info !



Bud

[yayajohn]

Ok right 3 outputs on the Black Lion. That should be enough though if you clock the A16U-PCI cards with one WC to either one. A slave of a slave? Not ideal though. 4 WC outputs would def be better. The Big Ben clocks I was looking at some were fairly cheap, <500USD down to $350 but location and timing prob has a lot to do with that. Unless the units have been dropped or banged around, it doesn't seem likely that they would degrade over time. But I really haven't researched that at all. I just apply the philosophy that most electronics outlive their usefulness succumbing to obsolescence long long before their actual demise. The Lucid I found was dirt cheap but there's a reason. It only provides 44.1 and 48khz. When 96khz came along that's what everyone wanted.
I get buying new because you never know what you're going to get when you open the box if it's used.
The Black Lion is def reasonably priced but after that they get expensive and then into the ludicrous stage.
Well good luck Bud. I hope you find what you need w/o giving up your arm and leg.

Dan

[garyb]

i'd get 6, but 3 will do if each sub-system is connected via ADAT, Z-Link, AES or whatever.

just be clear about the chain of command. more things on bnc is probably better when that many devices are involved. if you have a stable clock, leave it. there is a lot of science in clocking, but often voodoo makes it work. the classic setup is the star, with the clock in the middle.

[Bud Weiser]

Gary and yayajohn !

Thx a lot for your input.

I understand it´s best to have more BNC outputs, making it easier to find the right combo of BNC, ADAT, Z-Link etc. for a working startype synced rig.

all the best and stay safe in these times



Bud

[Bud Weiser]

O.k., thank you Gary, Valis and others who chimed in here.
The XITE wasn´t in use for a long time,- was in stock in a rack and not being connected to any machine,- for years.
Cables were in a separate box,- just only PSU, DVI>HDMI cable and the ADAT cables I don´t use actually here.
A16Us and Z-Link cables were bought seperately and within the past 1 1/2 years, expecting to set up my rig again soon.

It´s hard for me to understand why it doesn´t work now,- but I´ll have to accept it´s a hardware fault unfortunately.

When you´re sure it´s not the PCIe card, it makes no sense ordering a new one.
I better request a RMA and ship to S|C.
Are they working in these corona times ?



Bud

[valis]

It’s quite normal unfortunately to leave a device unused for years and discover it has problems. Capacitors for example leak if they sit idle, or just lose their ability to hold a charge when not given a current for a very long time. There are other things that age as well, but suffice it to say that powering up a long idle device often reveals where the magic smoke is stored, sadly.

[garyb]

yes, you can get an rma in these times.

[Bud Weiser]

Thx Valis and Gary !
I wonder how my last post slipped into this thread though ...
It should go into "XITE-1 Exception" https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 36&t=36446

anyway ...



Bud