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Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:03 am
by Bud Weiser
Nestor wrote:I agree with everything Bud, ...
thank you
Nestor wrote: ... except the concept of "cultural progress", I am convinced we are going down, not up, I don’t see progress, except in science, but definitely not in human nature, sorry.
well. Nestor, english isn´t my native language, so I understand the term "progress" in the sense of something moving on in time but to me that doesn´t mean it´s positive always.
Maybe I better used the term "cultural evolution",- I don´t know ...

And yes,- we´re going down.
Hard times will come for young and upcoming generations.

Bud

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:02 am
by Nestor
It is neither my first language brother, don’t worry, I understand better what you mean. It is nice that we can nevertheless communicate to each other having different mother languages, English has put together many nations worldwide, and I really like it too.

Your first language is French, isn’t it?

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:27 pm
by tlaskows
Never had used tape for recording. I'm a young one on here, lol. The tapes I did use were just regular casette tapes and they sounded horrible!

Can someone tell me why companies like UA have tape recorder emulations? Why would anyone want their stuff to sound like a tape?

I don't get it...

Sure, the compressors, limiters, reverbs, eqs are good, but why tape sound? I already have enough hiss when I record.

-Tom

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:33 pm
by garyb
yeah, tape has a higher noise floor, but a professional tape machine, Studer, Otari, MCI, Scully sounds really, really, really GREAT.

why tape plugins?
well, because people are gullible fools.

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:42 pm
by Bud Weiser
Nestor wrote: Your first language is French, isn’t it?
No,- german.
But I have relatives in france.
My french should be much better than my english, but it isn´t.
The occasions speaking french were much too rare the past decades.

Bud

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:42 pm
by tlaskows
LOL :lol:

That's a good one Gary :)

-Tom

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:43 pm
by tlaskows
Hmm,

I used to know some German, but I forgot it all...

Danke schön.

-Tom

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:12 pm
by tlaskows
I must say the EP-34 tape echo from UA sound pretty nice though... I like how you can move the tape head and it will add swishing and swooshing noises/distortion.

-Tom

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:24 pm
by hubird
Bud Weiser wrote:
Nestor wrote: Your first language is French, isn’t it?
No,- german.
But I have relatives in france.
My french should be much better than my english, but it isn´t.
The occasions speaking french were much too rare the past decades.

Bud
Your English sounds really great to me native Dutch :)
it's just that buyed which keeps me busy, I'm sure it's bought :wink:

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:55 pm
by garyb
tlaskows wrote:I must say the EP-34 tape echo from UA sound pretty nice though... I like how you can move the tape head and it will add swishing and swooshing noises/distortion.

-Tom
try a real tape echo.

yes, tape echos are neat. the dNa Tape Echo is really cool, too. Celmo's Tape Echo has also been on a number of my cuts....

tape echos and professional tape recorders are pretty different animals, of course. :lol:
2" tape is a format that really hasn't been improved on for 50 or more years ago. that's why there are Tape Plugins. there is "as good" and "almost as good", but not "better".

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:07 pm
by tlaskows
I'm afraid that I cannot afford a real tape echo lol. Don't even tell me what the price is. Also, what if it breaks? The plugin shouldn't break, in theory. It really sounds quite nice. Nice delay effect. Much different than a clean delay.

-Tom

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:24 pm
by hubird
tlaskows wrote:I'm afraid that I cannot afford a real tape echo lol. Don't even tell me what the price is. Also, what if it breaks? The plugin shouldn't break, in theory. -Tom
If you're lucky.
I lost my beloved Phatmatic Pro from Bitshift Audio, some long time ago, just because it wasn't supported anymore (by iZotope).
Beye beye plug-in, bye bye routine, not to speak of the mony :lol:

I know you said 'in theory', but I had to give up :wink:

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:29 pm
by tlaskows
Damn, that's too bad... :(

-Tom

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:31 pm
by Bud Weiser
tlaskows wrote: ...The tapes I did use were just regular casette tapes and they sounded horrible! ...
... but why tape sound? I already have enough hiss when I record.-Tom
In digital world, you cannot go over 0dBfs. When you do it sounds harsh.

With quality tape you go into the red and it saturates, compresses and sounds great, has more punch.
The tape hiss doesn´t matter when recording hot ...

You get much more hiss from a miced guitar or bass amp, especially when stomp boxes and/or tape echo machines are in the instrumentalit´s signal chain too.
When recording drums and vocals, most mics hiss too more or less and preamps/mixers do too,- all sums up.
That´s why there are expander/gates, noise filters/single-ended NR like Rocktron Hush and similar technology available.
Most hardware keyboards and synths also hiss more than the tape itsself.

You´ll also get hiss on a harddrive when recording electromagnetic/electronic instruments and vocals and don´t do everything w/ virtual instruments.

Any professional tape recorder isn´t comparable to a compact cassette recorder/player and professional tape itself is also not comparable to that material compact casettes are made from.
Pro tape MTRs use professional Dolby or DBX noise reduction.
IIRC, some switched it off and ran double speed which is expensive because it eats more tape per song.

Think about, 60s, 70s and 80s,- the 90s also but it went down already,- were the golden times of music.
Most stuff recorded, mixed and mastered at that time is analog production and it sounded always good enough for millionsellers.
When Protools came up, it was all about the editing which was easier than cutting tape.
Later, producers discovered the moneysaver harddrive. Buying no tape anymore was more money in their pockets.

Digital seemed to be the holy grail for everyone and everything ...

I remember when affordable digital samplers appeared in the market, they thought you will need no instruments anymore.
The same happened when drummachines and sequencers made ´em believe they don´t have to hire musicians anymore.
And so on,- it was all about saving money and not quality of audio or music itself.

Digital recordings on harddrives are NOT better than recordings on tape when done right,- period.
Same rules for masters.

Tape plugins are a joke, really.
In the beginning when analog was out and digital was hip, nobody wanted tape hiss, wow and flutter, distortion and such.
Then the manufacturers recognized,- musicians, producers and engineers complained lack of warmth of analog gear in digital products.
Now they came up w/ analog emulations and tried to simulate analog tape.
When I became aware of this I won´t believe because the intention of digital was getting rid of all the unperfection in analog audio,- and then when it worked, they came and scratched their head how to get all the dirt back into the recordings,- and they REALLY thought a digital plugin is the solution,- LOLest !

Bud

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:55 pm
by Bud Weiser
tlaskows wrote:Damn, that's too bad... :(

-Tom
Happens all the time, meanwhile I lost tons off commercial plugins i never thought about they will be discontinued ever.
A lot of Steinberg plugins belong to these.

There are more strategies I hate,- sometimes you simply cannot upgrade software anymore because you waited too long,- that happened to me w/ Wavelab 4 and w/ cubase SX3.

Upgrading my Waves Renaissance bundle is now so expensive I´d better buyed it again,- just only because I don´t wanted a WUP.

WTF ...

This market for computer hardware and native VST stuff is like stealing money from customers.
Manufacturers decide what YOU need and WHEN,- insane.

You don´t need upgrading your computer and your OS,- well, you don´t wait too long for penalty because all you bought before will be discontinued sooner or later and unusable when your old machine dies.

That never happens w/ hardware.
When it dies we can repair it, we can even decide who does the repairs or does the service once the warranty is gone,- but you cannot repair a plugin yourself or hire a coder to do that because of the copyright.

Also, in software world you "buy" something,- yes you say you bought a pluging, right ?
But you bought a licence,- it doesn´t belong to you and is nothing more than renting a piece of gear for a period of time ...
Some software companies doesn´t allow licence transfers or selling plugins at all while others make licence transfers insanely expensive.

Now think I buy a Marshall amp and Jim Marshall tells me it´s not allowed to sell it used and as long as I´m alive.

I don´t like that and prefer buying hardware because it´s mine then and can do with it what I like to do, modify it p.ex..

Bud

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:00 pm
by Bud Weiser
hubird wrote:I'm sure it's bought :wink:
Well, thx,- you´re right.

and,- "damn, I forgot that like I forgot french grammar and lots of vocabulary".

Bud

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:04 pm
by tlaskows
Yep. Hardware lasts for years. I just blew all my money on a DX7s. It's too hard to program your own sounds on the DAS F07.

-Tom

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:10 am
by yayajohn
So, what if you took a digital recording and sent it out of the computer into a reel to reel tape deck and re-recorded it back into the computer? Would it add that old analog warmth to it?

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:24 am
by hubird
Yes, that's what people do, if you have a decent tape machine at your proposition :)

Re: Wanted : Your Experiences With Analog Tape

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:28 am
by Nestor
Are they good emulations of this tape machines in VST? Is anyone using something like this? My question may be a joke, I don’t know, as this kind of sound it is perhaps impossible through computer means