PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

The Demise of SFP in 2015.

After years of Scope DSP slaughtering VSTi's, and crushing Pro Tools Synth designs, which would never then be released. Soniccore found themselves surrounded by hordes of Intel Multiprocessors, Mac's with OctoQuad core AMD CPU's, and Microsoft VST/VSTi's. Bill Gates had sent a message to the Soniccore warriors saying give us " THE BODY OF RALF," and we will let you live in slavery to the M$ VST/VSTi's.
Holger then said " We stay with our King." The messenger then said," Our arrows will block out the sun." Holger replied, " Then we will fight in the shade."
Gates then ordered their destruction, and sent 50,000,000,000,000 overbloated code lines in an attack on the server, and it ceased to function forever, along with that worthless antennae.
In honor of their death, a plaque at the observatory in Germany reads,.......................................
" Go stranger, and tell the Flexorians that we lay here obedient to their laws."


I wrote that 5 years ago, I better change it to 2020 when the 256 bit Operating systems make the world worthless again.

Comment and suggestions:

Impressive arguements and DSP overview guys
I'm the latest to deny them, nothing compares in sustained support, amount and quality you get for the mony.

Yet, for potential new users the key note here is: being right is one thing, getting it is another thing.
In other words: it's the perception of the potential new user that matters.
If they get to make it to this and other threads here one threshold is already taken: content arguements pro.

The other threshold is: what can a potential buyer expect from the company S/C with respect to the future?
An active devellopers scene (heil!) doesn't say so much about that, despite you argueing it.
And it would be a weak approach to say that other DSP farms lost track already or do expensive updates.
It's true, but the arguement comes from the weak points of the competition.
Like football club Ajax got to get it to national championship just because of the weakness of our national competition teams

That's why I keep saying S/C should make more efforts to communicate with the audio world, just to make clear it's alife and kicking.
To give suggestions: organise track making competitions rewarded with some goodies, or make plublic statements about aims and devellopments, etc.
Also very important would be professional videos showing the easy workflow, the synths, the easy hook-up to most available sequencers.

To end positive I would like to do a few promotion suggestions.

1. to start with the last remark: the only one who looks capable to make pro videos seems to be Faxinadu (given the fact that S/C hasn't resources to do it by itself).
Two conditions: it has to look reasonably professional, and a well considerated plan in direct communication with S/C has to lay underneath it (they worked already together, businesslike).
Costs would be relatively low this way.

2. Dante could make a great overview article on Hitfoundry, summarising the great arguements pro from above and the DSP overview by jhulk. I would keep it as factual as possible, no pushing needed.
Then we would just have to post a link to it on other relevant forums we use to visit.
Not to dive into arguements overthere, just to lay it down for those who are interested.

(@ Dante, I would like to see the text better readable (scaled by window width), another (not italic) font, colomwise presentation, more 'list-wise' text, more blank space, adding main menues, and possibly change the hosted name to http://www.ScopeRise, but all this un-thankfully aside ).
And you could put a link to your great site in a signature of you
Then I promiss to write something reasonable for mac diehards about working with the cards on two connected macs, for dummies at least, like me. 'Cause your idea should lead to something.

3. S/C: make noise, even if it's not really revelating news...explain why the planned devellopments are relevant, do regular mailings to users and on the site, tell about the steps of what you're working on, and in general, connect to the people. No, we won't ask deadlines or state-of-progression details, a company shouldn't give them, we understand that. Noise is what we ask
Like a competition, it doesn't take time so much...if desired outsource the judging processing (yeah, Hans Zimmer as endjury member ).

Elektron, comparable qua passion and niche market, has understood the importance of connectivity very well, I own two their machines, so I know.

And communicate the possibility of and chances for OSX in the future...show you're willing to.
OSX support still is a standard not to ignore...for sure for promotion reasons.

4. ??


cheers.

(edited a few times I say to you fast readers)

hubird wrote: 2. Dante could make a great overview article on Hitfoundry, summarising the great arguements pro from above and the DSP overview by jhulk. I would keep it as factual as possible, no pushing needed. Then we would just have to post a link to it on other relevant forums we use to visit. Not to dive into arguements overthere, just to lay it down for those who are interested.

Thats upcoming - I'll PM you the link in case you have your 10 cents worth, and more info / posts gathered from here to add.

The rest about menus and layout, probably not at the moment - if I ever graduate to a pro- authoring tool, perhaps.

My 30-year old Washburn 12-string acoustic needs needs new strings....

Anyways, shortly after buying Xite-1, I got two projects that immediately paid for it.
That was 5 (!) years ago.

Now it's still acting at the center of my studio - AES/EBU linked to my 16-year old Scope cards (running in their 4th computer) that have more than paid for themselves many times over.

I haven't had time to hook up all the new devices that have arrived over just the past year alone.

Still plenty of life left in Xite, and I don't see SC going away.

G

chris13 wrote:Nothing seems to evolve, or live, and I don't want to try again a new creamware story and to remain with this expensive equipment without any follow-up.

Why dont you try this other DSP platform then - lookee here how much more responsive this company is to user needs :

http://uadforum.com/unrest-department/1 ... stead.html

Mr Arkadin wrote:Well unless the next gen of OS is 128-bit then it will always function on 32- and 64-bit systems, so as much risk as anything else in life. And that's if the company stopped support today, which they're not.

I ran my Scope cards for 12 years. The only reason I stopped is because I got an XITE-1. I can see getting at least 10+ years out of that, probably more seeing how long the cards lasted. I've been through three computers since then. I think that shows where the real longevity is.

Anyway, we're not here to convince you to get something you don't want, just saying your fears are somewhat unfounded.

for exemple, do you think that the PCIe standard will last eternally ? if sonicore isn't there to suggest or bring upgrade solutions, you will buy PC antiquities on ebay ? already that the port pcmcia tends to equip the new laptops less and less...

but most alarming is not that. On several occasions, the contributors here (hubird..) stressed that the company did not even take a little time to be connected, even in a tiny way, with their followers. And is this scorn which I find worrying, and who prevented me to acquire their products. Something like a lack of respect, and so for technical problems one must cope with a similar silence : that frightened. Staff brings minimum service today, but afterwards ? Do you think it's logical to spend 3800 (with some adds : 4200, 4500 ?) euros to have a product from a manufacturer which don't even take five minutes to communicate a line on, well, how many time ? six, ten months, one year (scope on Namm 2013...and since...) ? Sorry, i very wanted to plunge me in their universe (modIV, arf... ), but they do not do anything to give me desire and I cannot, financially, allow a false step and jump without parachute.
(sorry for my bad english, France inside)

just another pooint of view....

you will get at least another 15-25 years from PCIe, maybe more. after all, you can still buy new isa motherboards. the newest intel socket 1150 boards have PCI slots and they work well with the very old cards. if PCIe is like PCI, it will be around for a long time. PCI slots have been in computers since 1992. that's 22 years. thunderbolt is merely hot swappable PCIe protocol.

the reason for PCIe and not USB or something even closer to elimination like firewire, is that devices at the PCI and PCIe level are recognized below the operating system level. usb and firewire are above the level of the OS. the more layers, the more chances of trouble. PCI and PCIe are the most stable connection possible in a PC, and since it's a cross platform industry standard, it's likely to last. in any case, in any time, if you can't produce world-class music on a current computer with an XITE, then you can't make world-class music with anything. there isn't a need to constantly replace your computer. it's a tool, not a toy, if you are serious about audio, music and sound design(pro or hobbyist).

it depends on how you want to spend your money, on tools that are always useful or on toys that always need to be replaced. tools are often more expensive than toys at first, but they're always cheaper in the long run.

or maybe it depends on what you want to play with, if everything is toys. do you want to play with computers or sound? obviously, the two aren't mutually exclusive, but there has to be a preference. if you like to upgrade a computer all the time because it's always underpowered or because you just like doing that and if you like buying new software all the time even if it doesn't do anything that your old software did or even if it does, you won't use it, then you might want to pass on Scope. that's not because Scope can't be super fun in that environment, but just because there's no point in wasting the hardware.

chris13 wrote:but most alarming is not that. On several occasions, the contributors here (hubird..) stressed that the company did not even take a little time to be connected, even in a tiny way, with their followers. And is this scorn which I find worrying, and who prevented me to acquire their products. Something like a lack of respect, and so for technical problems one must cope with a similar silence : that frightened. Staff brings minimum service today, but afterwards ? Do you think it's logical to spend 3800 (with some adds : 4200, 4500 ?) euros to have a product from a manufacturer which don't even take five minutes to communicate a line on, well, how many time ? six, ten months, one year (scope on Namm 2013...and since...)

Well, I bought a BMW or a Honda car, a big screen television, whatever in the house or garage. I don't have a need to be connected with those companies in any ways, unless there is a warrenty issue or a service. Fortunately XITE doesn't need a service ! So why the big need to feel 'connected' just because its a sound card or a rack mount music device ?

I'm not 'connected' to Mesa Boogie either but I spent $1000 there, or TC electronics - another $1000. My Mackie PA $2500 - no connection there either. The thing just works, all of em, without any umbilical cord in site.

Actually, if I need connection - theres more of it in this forum than with any of those companies - I get all the advice and expertise here - bucketloads of it.

Beggars on a beach of gold.

Sorry, but bmw or mackie have some solid foundations and consequent network, with numerous retailers. Sonicore, for example in France, it is ONE single (and very little) distributor. The fact that Thomann in Germany abandoned the dealing of SC is another indication.
There, in that case, we are not talking about "BMW" but more DeLorean or Oldsmobile: passionate staff, very competent, very good products, but with a illegible/dark strategy which brings straight ahead to the mess.

That you want it or not, Sonicore is connected to the computer world with its fast evolutions. As a synthesizer lives its life in a autonomous way, as we necessarily have to consider that Sonic remains connected to the evolution of operating systems, material (PCMCIA...), and its requires a reliable and constant support... like mackie or BMW in their domains

and for fun : http://www.mackie.com/enews/

Here is a list of hardware/software hybrids I own that are not in production any more and are not supported any more:

Akai S5000
Nord Micro Modular
Nord Modular G2
JazzMutant Lemur
Echo Gina Soundcard
Roland VariOS

Here is a list of hardware/software hybrids I own that are not in production any more and are still supported:

Sonic Core Scope PCI cards (Scope Pro + Luna)

Do you see a pattern here?

Steinberg MIDEX 8
Yamaha SW1000XG
Yamaha DSP Factory
Nemesis Gigasampler


Big companies, big names, huge dealerships, longevity of investment = 0, 64 bit support = 0

Notice any patterns there ?

Yes, my amstrad cpc 6128 is also still working...

guys, see, that's why I mentioned the perception of the potential user, not us or S/C being right...

me too I don't need the 'connectivity', but active communication to the outworld shows life to the interested audiance.
It's about PR, not calculations or being right in the argues

and you guys forget you bought the Xite when the young company looked bright and active.
New users are willing to make a choice now, and I can understand the hesitations, even if they are not rational or right.
PR is about perception.
If buyers like to see a lifely company befor they buy then be a lifely comany...

hubird wrote:guys, see, that's why I mentioned the perception of the potential user, not us or S/C being right...

me too I don't need the 'connectivity', but active communication to the outworld shows life to the interested audiance.
It's about PR, not calculations or being right in the argues

and you guys forget you bought the Xite when the young company looked bright and active.
New users have a choice now, and I can understand the hesitations, even if they are not rational or right.
PR is about perception.

nothing to add, thanks

The only thing which would change my mind about Sonic Core, it's a standalone unit like the Noah, but with a modular inside, a little as clavia but with the sound quality from creamware/SC/sharcs
It could be the item "4" of the hubird's list

hubird wrote:and you guys forget you bought the Xite when the young company looked bright and active.
New users are willing to make a choice now, and I can understand the hesitations, even if they are not rational or right.
PR is about perception.

Not really, I didn't forget anything, because it wasn't a criteria in the first place. The product spoke for itself so much so I was willing to buy direct without a massive dealership, distributorship or hooplaaa whatsoever.

But If 'warm fuzziness' from the manufacturer is a criteria for buying and you don't get that, then don't buy. Simple.

In that process though, I think you guys are forgetting that XITE just works at what it's supposed to do.

chris13 wrote:
The only thing which would change my mind about Sonic Core, it's a standalone unit like the Noah,...

NOAH is a PC PSU, a PC mobo, a Pulsar PCI card, some knobs and buttons,- possibly serial (or USB) connected internally,- and a display,- all in one case.

Today´s NOAH is possibly something like a MUSE Research Receptor,- even that lacks the DSPs.

What I never understood w/ these devices is,- when they are mounted into a rack and you put the rack off-stage (that´s what I did w/ my racks always when touring because the mamagement wanted a clean stage) - the onboard controls don´t make sense anymore.
Rack devices should be remotely controllable always.
I´d really prefer some black box and a remote control unit.

But todays remote control units aren´t dedicated hardware anymore,- tablet PCs w/ (multi-)touch screens are,- something like iPad.

As long as a "XITE-2" won´t come w/ an additional common processor inside and 4GB of RAM, you will need a computer always, may it be an external unit or build into one case w/ the DSP circuit board(s),- like it was w/ NOAH.
It´s not only about the screen/display and knobs/buttons.

I think, for a company like S|C today, it doesn´t make sense anymore building something like NOAH again.
I expect we can run something like SCOPE on future tablet PCs one day and get the remote control functionality in addition while the DSP stuff keeps in the external box.
There´s this, for the time being unused, Sub-D25 XTDM port on the back of the XITE, you know ...
I expect this to be the solution for future connectivity.

chris13 wrote: The only thing which would change my mind about Sonic Core, it's a standalone unit like the Noah,...

There was, is and will be a Modular in SCOPE always ...
Clavia Nord discontinued the NORD Modular long time ago,- there must have been (marketing- ?) reasons to do that.

Bud

chris13 wrote:after reflection, i shall not buy the xite. Why ? Nothing's happen (scope 6...), & I cannot spend as much money in a manufacturer which goes to collapse one day with other. Nothing seems to evolve, or live, and I don't want to try again a new creamware story and to remain with this expensive equipment without any follow-up. Sorry guys, too much fragile society, dubious conditions, I prefer to abstain...

Well, and here you already made your decision.
What´s the sense of the discussion ?

Bud

that he was able make his decision now

We have to face it guys: some people want to see a company showing it's alife.
The reasons not to buy, even if irrational or emotional, don't matter so much, sellings do
This one Xite not sold this time will 'cost' S/C let's say 2000 euro (dunno actually), imagine what promotion thingies you can do for that mony.
Making a video par example.

maybe that members of SC staff read the post, that would make them perhaps become aware of waitings and the reasons of the mistrust of some interested people.
Or maybe an intervention, here, from one of this staff with a few elements to contradict me or dissipate some trouble
But I believe they don't care, simply