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I see your point Nestor. It makes sense.

Fortunately, I'm in no big hurry. I guess I'll just have to try out as many weighted keyboards I can lay my hands on untill I find what feels right. And now I have a lot of good options to choose from.

Thank you everybody for your kind help on this matter!

Cheers,
Thomas

jhulk wrote:nords use fatar keyboards they use the 88TP/40GH, 88 keys

for the hammer piano action

You mean for the Nord Piano, yes ?

I´m asking because I doubt all the NORD weighted actions are "GH" graded hammer models.
Some instruments also use Fatar TP100 action, like Studiologic Numa Nano, Numa Piano or Kurzweil Artis.

Possibly for the Nord Piano 2 they use the TP40GH wood.

Nord is special anyway, their Fatar actions are slightly modified, at least in regards of the release springs used in the different models.
You play the action of a NORD and the same action feels different in another brand keyboard.

B.t.w.,- the Vienna/Austria boutique company "Lachnit" uses modified Fatar actions too, combined w/ light sensor technology.
They tweak the keys to Vienna Concert Grand standard.
http://www.flkeys.at/Products.html

jhulk wrote: and you can make a custom job with this keyboard and a doepfer control with your own case be it metal or wood

you can buy the parts direct from doepfer.de

you can also get it in smaller sizes but are special order

as are the wooden key versions

That´s what you get from Doepfer as the PK88 ...
A Fatar TP40GH build into a flightcase w/ the Doepfer MIDI electronics, standard physical MIDI port + USB MIDI, double switch pedal and expression pedal inputs.

The keys feel great, but the action bottoms out hard and fast.
The MIDI velocity curve is linear only,- big disadvantage because it doesn´t work good w/ most piano and e-piano sample sets from ROMplers incl. Kurzweil PC3/K models when using as a tonegenerator and using it´s local keys for synths,- p.ex. w/ the 61-key synth action models.
MIDI channel on the Doepfer PK88 is also fixed, channel #1 only.

It seems, all is pre-programmed that way in the firmware of the Doepfer MIDI interface circuit board.
Also,- since some time, the Fatar actions are available w/ triple sensor technology, but I don´t see Doepfer offers the Fatar actions w/ that feature nor their masterkeyboards.
Can be that changes at some point,- but can also be they want to sell their old stock 1st.

I´d never buy a 2-sensor velocity system anymore when I can get a triple sensor system.
The advantages for repetitions and legato playing are too big to ignore ´em.

I like Kawai makes their own actions, translating very good to their sample sets and I appreciate they sample their pianos note-for-note,- all 88 keys and in 6 velocity layers at least,- possibly 8 meanwhile.

The weight of the Kawai´s is because of their piano actions build into their stage pianos and controller.
The VPC and MP11 seem to have very long keys going deep into the enclosure, so the pivot point is perfect like on a real piano.

Bud

How does the Roland V-Piano feel? Anyone try it yet?

silence... that's what they get for pricing it so high.

Been waiting for the price to drop but it didn't drop enough.


Let that be a lesson for all music gear manufacturers. It's really stupid to make your gear cost way more than similar products, even if it is the best thing since sliced bread.

even if selling things for less makes them unprofitable, they should sell things for whatever people want to pay. this should be mandated by the UN and the Council of Greys.

I'm sure Roland can afford to lose money on a single product but some companies put all their eggs in one basket.

I've decided I want to learn to play the keyboard. I started a decade ago but heh.....


Any opinions on this one ?

http://www.studiologic-music.com/vmk-188-plus.html
The VMK-188 Plus provides the world famous full-size 88 key TP40GH with graded hammer action keys that give you a true piano-like feeling. No other keyboard has ever achieved this level of popularity and quality – just touch it, feel it and you will love it!

Its around EUR 530,-

The, somehwat, cheaper option I found ( EUR 400,- )

http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/oxygen-88
We carefully designed the Oxygen 88 keyboard to emulate the feel and response of an acoustic piano. Graded hammer action means that the keys are slightly heavier in the bass and lighter in the treble areas—just like the real thing. We’ve also incorporated four highly musical velocity curves, so you can choose the one that best suits your playing style.


I would appriciate your opinion!

Get a used stage Piano from Casio or Kurzweil.
Even the ones with shitty speakers play better than any controller would.
They were built to trigger that particular internal PCM so getting several velocity layers is easy.
Using a controller for an external software instrument might get you a bigger sound but you lose 4-5 layers of velocity from the shitty MIDI resolution that is standard on all of these modern day 88 controllers.

FrancisHarmany wrote:I've decided I want to learn to play the keyboard. I started a decade ago but heh.....


Any opinions on this one ?

http://www.studiologic-music.com/vmk-188-plus.html
The VMK-188 Plus provides the world famous full-size 88 key TP40GH with graded hammer action keys that give you a true piano-like feeling. No other keyboard has ever achieved this level of popularity and quality – just touch it, feel it and you will love it!

Its around EUR 530,-

The, somehwat, cheaper option I found ( EUR 400,- )

http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/oxygen-88
We carefully designed the Oxygen 88 keyboard to emulate the feel and response of an acoustic piano. Graded hammer action means that the keys are slightly heavier in the bass and lighter in the treble areas—just like the real thing. We’ve also incorporated four highly musical velocity curves, so you can choose the one that best suits your playing style.


I would appriciate your opinion!

You´ll find the Fatar TP40GH action in several different branded keyboard instruments.
The cheap Studiologic masterkeyboards come up w/ other issues than action related ones, mostly OS related like lame program changes and lock ups out of the blue.
In addition, Studiologic´s customer service isn´t known as the best one, so it can be some issues will never be adressed and fixed in future.

The M-Audio stuff is horrible in my opinion. I once tried a M-Audio 88 weighted keys action controller and for me it was nearly unplayable.

Old Kurzweils, also Fatar, suffer from all kind of issues and that rules up to the K2500 and 2600 series of keyboards, like keyweights falling out of the keys and other mechanical problems.
It can be that´s also true for the PC88 and PC1 and PC2 keyboards, but m not sure.

The new Kurzweil keyboards come w/ "compromize" actions,- Fatar and much better quality than ever before, but even being weighted hammer actions, these are "light" actions, making it possible to play also organ and synth parts, not only piano/e-piano.
None of the Kurzweils comes w/ the TP40GH or TP40 WOOD (which is the best !).
Kurzweil PC3X, PC3K8 and the new Forte use the Fatar TP40L.

You´d find the TP40WOOD in the Studiologic Numa Concert piano b.t.w., but I´ve heard it has other technical issues too.

Fatar TP40WOOD is in the italian Physis Piano H1 or austrian Lachnit "boutique action" piano controller.
Both companies tweak the action to their demands and the Lachnit offers a special optical sensor system in addition.
Both are expensive.

IMO, the best piano action you can find in a stock keyboard controller or DP is Kawai !
The VPC-1 is a pure MIDI controller but comes with the most realistic piano action of wooden full length keys, right pivot point also for the black keys, triple sensor technology for better repetitions and so on.
It looks really great in a studio and you can put something on top like dedicated synth action controller and/ or laptop etc..
It has USB and physical MIDI I/O and works w/ a triple-pedal like a piano.
The velocity curves are designed for the best piano sample libraries and the physical modelling Pianoteq Pro.

When you want something w/ build in sound engine,- The Kawai MP11 is excellent and comes w/ nearly the same (if not the same) action and great piano sounds.
The Kawai MP7 is the cheaper variant but still has a great piano action and comes w/ many of the acoustic piano tones the MP11 delivers.
Kawai MP7 is "bang for the buck" for about EUR 1.400.- incl. VAT 19%.
Both, the MP11 and MP7 pianos are sampled note-by-note at several velocities,- no sample stretching across keys.

There´s still the rule "You won´t find any good actions in the pricerange under a grand".

There are exceptions:

a)
Doepfer PK88 which comes w/ the Fatar TP40GH too.
As a pure and simple masterkeyboard for piano software usage it has limits like fixed linear velocity curve, only MIDI channel 1 transmission, but also comes w/ USB MIDI and 5-pin DIN MIDI outs, expression pedal connector and double pedal connector.
Dual sensor technology like most you find on the market, not triple sensor.
Some say the action bottoms out very hard though and it´s hard to play quiet passages w/ this action.
Maybe a matter of taste and worth a try.
It´s about EUR 760.-.

But when you are in the US it´s not a good idea buying the Doepfer because the distributor is reported to be not very helpful when you have issues.

b)
Casio Privia Pro PX 5S is reported offering a good weighted keys piano action including very usable sounds, good customer service and support.

It can be the older Casio PX3 uses the same action, so that might be a candidate to buy used and cheap.

good luck

Bud

+1 for Privia. Surprisingly good feel for the price. Some of their models are quite light to carry around too. Friend of mine gigged with one and used to drag it around everywhere. I think he may still be gigging with one.

kensuguro wrote:+1 for Privia. Surprisingly good feel for the price. Some of their models are quite light to carry around too. Friend of mine gigged with one and used to drag it around everywhere. I think he may still be gigging with one.

The Privia Pro 5S would be mine if it were black and had at least ONE expression pedal input, but it hasn´t.

Many complained ...

Maybe we see another model "6S" or a "5S rev2" some day,- Winter NAMM is near.
We´ll see ...

Bud

Totally agree about the PX-5S. The colors are so gay.

I love the PX-3S action even for external sounds.
I can't trigger a dozen velocity layers with it but I use a PhysMod PianoTeq Pro 5 for it's editable Upright and D4, plus the smokin' Wurlitzer 200A.

Even though I love my Casio I am embarrassed to be seen with one so I changed the name, and everyone always comments on how great the Moog sounds.

Did the same thing for the lame ass M Audio.
People loved the sound of my Oberheim....

Ober-audio...

Privia rules in the bang for buck weighted department. Semi-weighted I would take a look at this for nifty DAW control :

http://www.nektartech.com/PRODUCTS/Panorama-P4-P6

Thanks everyone for the very usefull and informative replies! Seems I have some more researching todo! Glad I came to you guys for some advice.

Increasing my budget is step one!

I'll go to the local music store to get a feel for different stage pianos.

on that note, my Yamaha p250 is starting to expire on me. Lots of ghost key presses detected on the key's release (on its way up). Seems to "bounce" once it reaches the top. (though I don't think it's actually bouncing all the way back down) Sad thing. I don't love the action, but I had learned it. And i hate hunting for weighted key controllers. I just like the form factor, since I can keep my laptop on top and use it as a mini desk.

you can always rebuild the Yamaha's action if you don't want to deal with finding another board.

I guess so.. you mean like take it apart and clean it right. Benefits of a mechanical action.