PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

I have an Arturia SparkLE. I wanted an x0x style sequencer interface, but with the brains on Native/scope.

The MIDI implementation is pretty weak, but it does have a lot of emulations rather than just sample libraries.so synthesis and knob turning IS the flow. I'd like to marry it to the modular more, but sequencing CC's is not a strong suit yet.

It is great at quickly banging together a beat and baseline. Or x0x style sequences. It's fun, although with 16 channels of synthesis (or multi-layered samples), plus stereo mixer, auxes, and channel/aux/master FX can seem like a bit CPU intensive...it's got a lot going on.

Tau wrote:I know Maschine (don't have one), and I agree that it doesn't present anything unique in terms of sonic textures or synthesis or what-have-you. What it does do, is create a workflow with its physical interface that is extraordinary (to me)- while offering a huge sound palette taken from various NI "engines" and the ability to host VSTs, or use it as one.

Can you have that experience with something else? Probably... Akai is certainly trying to compete, but its products seem a bit lackluster when compared. It's not just about lights and beautiful graphics, it's beyond that, it's about how it makes you feel when making music... And the Machine excels at that, in my opinion, because it makes the user feel important by showing and highlighting all pertinent information in terms of light shows, graphics and a neat layout, instead of hiding super powerful parameters and making you go look for them instead of concentrating on the feel. It's all immediate.

The results you get out depend on what you put in, though... Your own samples, your own patches, your own movements... even Scope can be controlled by Maschine... No real reason not to sound like yourself just because you're using a combination of a step sequencer and pads... And if you feel you're not going anywhere with it, then it's just not for you, and there'll be plenty of buyers on the second hand market.

I disagree that a Maschine is necessary for any genre, dance music or not... Techno is about 40 years old, 20 years ago we already had "jungle" and drum and bass, so all necessary sequencing and interfacing tools have been around for long, even for dubstep It may get you quicker to the "standards", but for innovators, it's just another tool to work with.

+1

@fra77x: Thanks so much for the Glitch module. I will definitely try it out. I have been keeping my eye on this area since an old Scoperise article since Wouter's 2010 technique : http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_06/glchmast.htm

This seemed clever, but a touch laborious, creating ramps and routing etc. So immediacy is what I've been looking for and the Rack Extension in reason 'Beat Repeater' is damn good. But you know I would like to have it in DSP as that would improve workflow.

As for wobble basses, I'm working on a Thor patch modulated by its own LFO or a matrix pattern.

djmicron, I already concur that its knowledge of the genre that counts. So yes Ive been listening to some, but it seems a very wide genre, with a load of different subtypes, tempos and timbres, so a bit confused there. Secondly, I want to focus on the techniques rather than the full genre, as what I come out with won't necessarily be strictly dubstep - just dubstep influenced, therefore maybe electro in a broader sense.

As for the debate as to whether 'Maschine Studio' (the top of the line in the series) brings anything new to the table, I think it does, even if the sounds and techniques are nothing new, it seems the interface is. Yes, its a bunch of colorful flashing pads and lights, but also that's not necessarily a bad thing. Electro genres are - lets face it - somewhat psychedelia influenced, so if the lights give you that feeling, plus convey information about parameters, then I think they have a purpose.

Its then just a question of whether its worth one large. Maybe it is as an indulgence more than a necessity, but I will definitely explore more deeply other options discussed here first, so thanks for all those suggestions.

with drum and bass and dubstep slow version of drum and bass

it was always sample based triggered

you would make several wobble bases sequences and drum beats then you would just trigger them

its a sampler instrument type music chopping stuutter fx and glitching and pitch fx

what is nice on the maschine is that you can set up the pads to trigger sequences of different sets

the same way we used the asr10 mpc60/3000 and mpc2000/xl

if i was you i would first pick up a version 1 maschine they sell for £200-300 then try it out first if your happy with it then maybe go for the studio version

but at least you will know if you like the flow of how to make music

its just a copy of the mpc range and idea but the mpc60 and 3000 has 64 midi channels so are great for live use

and you can get an mpc60/3000 for a lot less than the maschine studio for sequencing they are great and chopping of beats but there synthesis is very lacking

if you after 32nd/16th/8th/4/2/1 dub wobble bases let me know as i have a load in sample format for triggering as wavetable synthesis is a good medium for creating these mad sounding changing wobble bases

but the problem i have found with ni synths and fx they sound like ni very predictable they all use the same type filters as kontakt and reactor

best wobble dubstep synths from ni is massive

if your after new drum hits that are dubstep and glitchy ill upload some to my dropbox for you

and you can use them in the in john bowens drum synth which is very capable of dubstep beats or electro

Yes I played with Johns RD Drum, what I like about it is the sequencer page which shows beats for all drums in a matrix at once. As opposed to the iPad version of iElectribe which Ive also been playing with, you have to select one drum first, and then the beats, so you only ever interact with the beats one drum at a time.

Here again its about the immediacy of the interface.

Id be gratefull if you have some wobbly bass sounds I could load into RD drum though.

P.S. RD Drum sequencer works on my system PCI 64bit, so I gather its not affected by the 64 bit Scope sequencing bug (?) Or is it only XITE affected ? I run Zarg stuff on PCI.

dante wrote:@fra77x:
djmicron, I already concur that its knowledge of the genre that counts. So yes Ive been listening to some, but it seems a very wide genre, with a load of different subtypes, tempos and timbres, so a bit confused there. Secondly, I want to focus on the techniques rather than the full genre, as what I come out with won't necessarily be strictly dubstep - just dubstep influenced, therefore maybe electro in a broader sense.

yes it is wide and it isn't only a matter of making the music, it's something that includes lifestyle and culture.

fra77x wrote:I upload here a glitch fx module. One is for the xite using sdram, the other for scope pci.

It's very simple just an lfo messing with the delay buffer.
It clicks a lot but it's ok for me.

to see the panel right click-> open panel

Just played with this.......Its an interesting start. A stereo version that worked as an insert would be good !

For Glitch you can create Feedback Delay networks as a sample mangler.
Your audio is being sampled in real time.
It the feedback line you can create f.i. pattern based gating and modulating the delay-time gives you pitch-shifts.

Few NMG2 experiments here:
https://soundcloud.com/roland-kuit/patt ... sr-digital
https://soundcloud.com/roland-kuit/glitch-bank

All can be done with the S|C Modulars.

About feedback - if you get some strange comment about in this forum, it is because a funny man messed with it too much here....

Anyway.......


Can this be done with modular ?

http://youtu.be/vifCM2aaWFk

Yes, this can be done with the Modular.
Even audio reverse. I've build NMG2 patches that can do this.
Remind me after the Mondriaanhuis concert.

I'll chip in. Disclaimer is I'm not into Maschine or dubstep.

Let's talk in general first. I think it is true that a certain type of music more naturally comes from specific interfaces, be it hardware or software. You use a 16 step sequencer and you get a certain tendency, just like the NES forces you to write in a certain way. True, you could probably break out of those limitations (tendencies), but I do believe the forcing function is there.

On the other hand, the more atomic the tool, the less it will force you into a certain direction. Say, you were coding a VSTi from scratch, or planning schematics for a hardware synth from scratch. Does that force you to make drum 'n bass? Not really, since there's nothing there. But I will say that there will be a force to make you get lost in fiddling with the building process that you end up merely completing the process, and the result becomes almost secondary to the journey. That's one way to do it, but I'm trying to point out that there is a trade off. If you wanted to just slap together some loops and get something done in 10 minutes, then Acid or Fruityloops will be a much better choice than building a sampler and sequency app in Max/MSP or pd, which would probably take months to get right. (I mean, there are COMPANIES that do that sort of stuff)

Now, thinking of dubstep, it's hard to imagine what sort of interface will make things easier than were it made in Live or Logic or any other typical DAW. It's really a lot more about sample prep than anything else (I think), since the wobbles are manipulated and sampled, then triggered to create the phrases. So, a pad may help, but essentially does exactly the same thing as keys. But I'm perfectly comfortable laying down any sort of beat on keys so I might be the wrong person to ask. Some say pads are easier, to me they're all the same.

To me, rather than thinking "Maschine is good for X" I think Maschine is just in a line of more contemporary experiments on changing the DAW to MIDI controller relationship. Live is definitely doing stuff like that, and Maschine seems to follow in a similar model. For me, it falls under the "super integrated" umbrella, where the software and hardware are tightly coupled to the point where they're only valuable together. Which to me, sounds more like a business thing as a result of the faltering software industry. The tight coupling just makes it a hardware dongle. But since it's functional, and the software is worthless without it, it gets automatically figured into the base buy, and rationalizes a higher price since it's "bundled".

The AKAI example is actually very relevant. To me, all this "pads and DAW" thing like AKAI samplers modded to take VST and VSTis. AKAI samplers for good for certain things, and I guess people want more of it. I can't imagine it'd be that much different from using an actual pad controller with any old DAW though. With the super integrated controllers you might be able to control more of your DAW through the controller, but at the end of the day, (for me) controlling the DAW with a keyboard and mouse is not morbidly detrimental, and is in fact faster. I remember when I did everything on the synth, with all sequencer controls built as hardware buttons, and that was that. Actually moving from that to a software DAW with keyboard and mouse was a huge step forward. Hardware controls on the control surface might be cool if your DAW and monitor was in a different building, or only existed in the cloud (now that's an idea!), but that's not the case. I'm sitting right in front of it, keyboard and mouse within reach. If using the keyboard or mouse really messes up your routine, then I guess that's a different story. (like you're performing live, or your religion only permitted you to use keyboard and mouse on Tuesdays and Thursdays only after sundown)

I will agree with the "knowledge is power" perspective though. Knowing a lot about a subject... I mean, like down to the component level knowledge, will allow you to realize whatever it is you're trying to realize in just that many different ways. If you know precisely what the quintessential element is, that makes a genre sound a particular way, then you've successfully decoupled the "essence" from its origin. And once it's portable, you can bring it with you where ever. The knowledge has become "generalized". I try to do that wherever it is practical.

Well summed Ken.

However I fear even if after listening and reading about dubstep and other hints all this weekend I will still want one (Maschine Studio)

Really, I should spent this money on a new ASUS Z87C based rack mountable

sure, I think it's always worth having a go at something new. Esp if it's not something you're used to. It's one thing to theorize and and conclude XXX shouldn't be worth it (and avoid it) but to actually mess with it, use it in production is a totally different level. Only then might you conclude that XXX wasn't good for YYY, but actually changed your mental approach to YYY and now you're making ZZZ. Everything has affordance, but reap its benefits, you gotta check it out first.

Dante, you have Reason... Download a few patches for Reason synths designed to get a Dubstep sound. Decompose those patches, and figure out the synthesis techniques. Start with an Init patch, and build them up again.
Use Combinators with LFO's modulating filter cutoff in Thor, overdrive in the Scream distortion rack, and the like.
Listen to the sub-genres of dubstep - brostep, glitchstep, dubwise, who knows what else. For those ones you like the sound of, try to build the patches. Use a Step Sequencer when auditioning your preset - the rate at which these sequences are played really affects how you program the patch - there aren't too many sustained notes in dubstep, and those that are sustained, the LFO rate is modulated by the gate/amp envelope...
For real-time control, get an MPD-32 or a couple of LPD8's. Map their pads to midi notes to trigger samples in OctoRex, notes in Thor, pads in Kong, and map their controllers to Combinator macros...

Basically, I think that Reason is a better platform to create good dance music than Maschine.
No fancy hardware interface to the software can replace what the software itself offers.
One learns a subject more effectively if you can minimising the learning variables... I.e. as Ken says, you'll learn stuff faster with keyboard and mouse, so take the effort and headache of 'must learn the hardware controller too' out when approaching this.
And when you're confident you can do a performance of what techniques you've learned, check out something like an MPD32 or a PadKontrol or whatever...

Unless you have a knob-laden interface, Hardware Controllers are mostly about Performance - at least they are for me.

Just my tuppence.

OK ! OK! Alright already

Everyone is right I shouldnt blow my $$ - at least before exhausting gear already onhand - anyway its the same price as the latest top of the line MPC so I would have to consider that as well.

Ill stick to Reason and Scope and maybe a new cheap bass plugin - I must admit I do like purpose build thingies :

http://youtu.be/jaGRrGY2ZmY

But Ill try Reason first as well.