Q-Wave BSOD's

[dante]

How much RAM you guys with the crash got ? I'm running Win8 x64 with 8 GB Ram. I've played with most of the Zarg stuff briefly over the last couple of days, only had one crash - changing presets too fast in Solaris v5 - where Scope just disappeared off the screen. Also a few of the usual Scope resource popups which reducing poly normally fixes.

I'm running on PCI and in general the Zarg stuff seems stable, and very few errors if I keep the poly low whilst preset surfing and don't try changing presets to the next one whilst the previous one is already in the process of loading.

Once found a desired preset, increase poly by one at a time watching DSP meter.

Seems like the BSOD's you guys are experiencing are happening more on XITE than PCI (?) so there again could come back to the fact the Zargs weren't written ( and therefore not tested during development ) on that platform. Zarg aren't the only third party dev to have used sys files, as they do offer the developer a way of extending beyond the SDK atoms allowing them to write their own algorithms and achieve an improved result, or at least a unique sound for a brand.

[garyb]

sys files are required when Scope needs to access the computer host's resources like ram.

[Eanna]

Hi, I was just about starting a reply to the thread to report no BSODs yet tonight!
So far so very good!

To answer your question Dante, I'm on Win7 32-bit still, with 4GB RAM. My PC can take up to 24 GB RAM and will happily run 64 bit version of Windows, but since I only recently got Scope 5.1, and still have my Noah, and I don't use bit chunky sample libraries or oversized multisampled Kontakt instruments, I'm good with my 4GB and my 32-bit Windows 7 install.

I haven't tried running Noah software in 32-bit compatibility mode on a Win7 64-bit OS, but I have a nice laptop with Win7 64-bit on, so I intend to give that a whirl, especially since I saw a post not so long ago about someone having success there.

And no, I'm not on Xite. I'm on two PCI cards - an old Scope card (15 DSPs, think it's a Gen 1 card from 1999), and a Pulsar2 (6 DSP, think it's 2001, maybe it's Gen 2?).

Hurray! I'm more stable! Not just my Scope installation, but my mindset and general mental wellbeing!

[Eanna]

To ShogunSpy and mausmuso, and anyone else experiencing BSOD's on a Scope setup - do try the technique I've outlined above.
It's worked for me!

What gives this strategy the edge for me is that it allows you to identify what is being shared with scope, not just to the host resource, but to the actual physically-connected device. Bit of re-jigging, dig out a USB hub if you have to (I did), maybe move a card (I didn't), and get stability back into your lives...

And thinking about it, it's not Scope that is necessarily at fault here. Anything sharing resources depends on all players acting nicely. It's like anything - put five folks in a room, feed them off one plate of food, and if the hungriest guy freaks out, it may well be some other dude in there that's grabbing more than their fair share, driving the other lad over the edge. The hungry guy who flips out looks like the baddie, but it was in fact the other fella silently depriving him of food that's the fault. If those guys speak a foreign language (like BSOD crash dump language), you may never understand what the guy is saying... So BSODs with scScope.sys as the last actor could well be not the cause but the effect...

[mausmuso]

Thanks Eanna,
I have a few conflicts worth looking into!
I am concerned about the USB Hub and controllers on IRQ 19.
Also I note there is memory sharing, but I don't think its that at this stage.
@Dante
For the record I have 12Gb of ram
Maus

[Eanna]

OK, not sure what you can do about the Memory, but yeah follow the steps on the previous page to find what USB devices are connected to those USB Host Controllers on the same IRQ as XITE by using the Device Manager "Devices by Connections" view. Be prepared to unplug those devices, and disable the USB Host Controllers thru the Device Manager.

I also notice you have a VIA chipset Firewire controller (OHCI) on the XITE IRQ. Do you have a Firewire device connected? On my last PC, I had no end of stability woes with a Firewire Audio Interface that in retrospect I could probably have solved using these techniques.

Since you've an Xite, guess you have a Card in a PCIe slot that looks after Xite comms. Is that card listed on your same IRQ 19?
If yes, then before you do any of the above, I think you should consider moving Xite to another PCIe slot. Remember, a small-connector PCIe can fit into a large PCIe slot... Restart your machine, and check for conflicts again. You might end up sharing Xite with fewer devices... Since IRQ 19 is shared with the IDE controllers, the interrupts for your Hard Drive may well be too much for Xite to live happily with..

(Me, I didn't have the option to move my Scope PCI cards, since my motherboard has only two PCI slots...)

[garyb]

you can always try a different slot.

otherwise, disable the usb controller.

[mausmuso]

Hi There,
XITE-1 hardware is on a different IRQ.
I have disabled the two USB nodes on 19.
One was a codemeter for my old Yellow Tools Independence Sampler. Interestingly it has been reporting that that codemeter is not running for months.
I ignored it pretty much as nothing seemed to be disabled (Independence now runs in Samplitude and is working fine).
I removed the codemeter.
The other was 4 port midi box that I have re-routed to another USB port with a different IRQ.

Started SCOPE after reboot, all seemed well.
Ran Q-Wave and was able to change presets on the main instrument OK (so far).
Tried to change Performance Preset and bam BSOD!
Re-booted and without doing anything except playing an odd note on Q-Wave when it opened, Changed a Performance preset and BSOD again!
Interestingly this time minidump reports the cause as 'Memory Management' whereas previously it was 'IRQL_Not_Less_Or_Equal'.

The Firewire is the next target.
It links to my M-Audio ProjectMix IO that I use just as a controller.
I will disable and see what comes from that.
Thanks for your help
regards
maus

BSOD_2.png (37.52 KiB) Viewed 3055 times

Conflicts_2.png (24.08 KiB) Viewed 3055 times

[mausmuso]

Disabled the VIA 1394 OCHI Firewire.
Still get BSOD's.
A good thing to get away from SCOPE interrupt though.

[dante]

After playing around a while and changing presets about a dozen times, I got a BSOD using QWave on PCI. In Windows 8 - this means a reboot.

So looks like its not just an XITE issue.

I will later test QWAVE under WinXP 32 bit to see if the issue occurs there as well, and try the disable anything sharing IRQ with Scope

[Eanna]

Its not just usb devices that could cause the flow of data to scope to be interrupted.

Dante, what shares irq with scope?
And maus, what firewire device have you connected? The via ohci device is your firewire host hardware driver. Even temporarily, can you disable that, and retest? And, do you have the option of using a different slot for the xite card?

It may be worthwhile to consider checking for dpc latency on your systems too - especially those with firewire stuff.

Edit: sorry I see you disabled firewire..
Is there any option to change the slots for the xite card?
You may be able to adjust memory sharing by switching off dma, but I have no idea if this is generally a good idea or not, so best to do a bit of research. Here's a how-to:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ie/wind ... -on-or-off

[garyb]

sounds like the performance presets may have an issue...

[dante]

@Eanna, both my PCI Scope setups (x32 and x64) share an IRQ with a USB peripheral - wireless dongle from memory.

@GaryB, yes its the performance presets I've been testing and I imagine that would cause the most changes on the DSP load.

However, I've just tested QWave under WinXP 32 bit and I was not able to reproduce a BSOD.

Yes, I got PAD / STM and optimisation pop ups but none of them caused the computer to crash and I was able to recover in the current QWave session by selecting other presets - the INIT ones seem to do the job.

So far on my PCI system, QWave only BSOD's on 64 bit OS and not on 32 bit OS. That's after only 30 mins or so testing under each OS.

Handy for testing such things having dual boot.

[mausmuso]

Hi,
Testing has come to a grinding halt, in fact everything has come to a halt.
I decided (foolishly) to upgrade my BIOS while I was in the mood for maintenance!
Well, that went badly.
Somehow flashing the BIOS got corrupted and now I cannot boot at all.
I cleared the CMOS, but its the basic BIOS that is corrupt and I cannot download from the MSI website as it uses 'Live Update' and of course I cannot boot to use it!
I have not found a way to get a downloadable bootable onto USB to fix it as yet.
My motherboard is MSI X85a GD65.
It only has one PCIe slot so moving the XITE card is not an option.
Any one with advice as to how I can get a bootable USB would be appreciated
Regards
maus

[Eanna]

Oh man! So sorry..

Can you get to the bios screens? is the POST failing?
If not then you might be stuck for booting off usb?

Whenever I'm looking at sorting a bad windows installation, I boot off usb stick into linux.
Its also possible to boot into windows, but you need the windows installation disk, which if you got an oem copy of windows may be tough to find.

Here's the tool I use to create bootable linux:

http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/

I'm imagine that linux has bios updater programs..

Best of luck, Eanna

[Eanna]

Dante, the 64 bit version of the zarg synths use a different device driver for managing stuff probably to do with memory or dma.

Can you disable the usb host controller, even temporarily, and retest on 64 bit?

[Eanna]

Maus, couldn't find hits for MSI X85a GD65.
Should the 85 be 58?

[Eanna]

For windows installations, check http://www.howtogeek.com/127377/the-bes ... usb-drive/

I used the official Microsoft one once..

[mausmuso]

Thanks Eanna,
yeah I knew it was 58 not 85 just dislective I guess.
Thanks for the howto link.
I have the Win 7 Pro disk, so tonight I will try to boot from that or a USB windows setup.
Theres got to be a way to recover.
So much stuff on that machine, I hate the thought of having set it all up again!
regards
maus

[Eanna]

I would recommend the usb approach, as I think you can choose to set it up to boot into the os.
Think the installer cd pushes you down a clean install.

Is it booting windows that's the problem? You can load the bios screens ok? You don't get beeping as you might if post failed?
Might you have changed from ide to ahci as part of the bios update? Or vice versa..
Such a change would probably stop windows from booting. Not ever come across it, but you might check that.
Your ide controller was one of those that shared irq with xite, so check if your bios is now set to ahci..