Uhe diva

[dawman]

You have valid points so I shall rephrase myself.

No other synth has the 96k audiorate, and realtime parameter modulations that make the Solaris the best live perfomance synth I ever played.
The fact it's sound is beyond others in pristine definition and Fatness is a bonus.

But for recording, the luxury of listening more than once is what is important.
Then mixing several pre recorded tracks is what making music is all about.

Unfortunately, I am a live juke box who entertains prositutes, drunks and posers who lie whenever they open their mouths. So for the sake of my sanity I need the very best instruments, as I only get one shot to immitate and emulate.
And when I write music, it's always weird shit that nobody likes, but it's a rebellious way to keep me interested in acting like a Rock God of Yore.

Actually I was thinking about taking a gun and going into the next room and doing the right thing about a year and a half ago. Then I played Solaris and life suddenly seemed worth living again.

It reminded me of the first time I shot off a 50 round clip on a MAC 10.

[dante]

Based on what Ive read, I would give Diva a try and definately consider a purchase if I didnt have so many synths already 90% under utilised.

I thought the same about Arturia JP8 a couple of years ago as well. But if a 1 to 1 replica of the JP8 came out for Scope, I'd buy it first at twice the price first depending on its DSP consumption as well of course (8 voice poly (or 4 in unison mode) on 12 old DSP's would do me). Just coz I loved the synth and played it a fair bit during the 80's, so already had a 'taste' for it.

Anyway I think its good that a native synth has raised the bar as it gives the upcoming OpenScope developers something to think about in filter etc implementation, so as to firmly bark the native synths back into thier rightful 'catchup' positions (even without bring out the big guns of Solaris @96K )

[Sounddesigner]

so as to firmly bark the native synths back into thier rightful 'catchup' positions (even without bring out the big guns of Solaris @96K )

To my taste Native still has not left that "catch-up" position. A synth needs more then just a good filter, when i listen to the raw sound of DIVA it is harder/harsher then the better SCOPE synths to my ears. Native synths tend to sound hard/harsh with general-sound and if not those flaws then some veil over the sound to counter the hard/harshness or some other flaw.

Everyones not huge DIVA fans, in fact like always there is many who do like it and many who don't BUT also a small group of spammer people that go from forum to forum making about a gazillion posts in attempts to hype it. If you exclude the posts of that small group there would have been alot less attention to DIVA and it would'nt be as inapproprietly mentioned in every unrelated thread on the internet as much. This is the case with alot of Native products, there is a small group of people/hype-machines at work and Marketing-drones. Go to the UAD forum and there is a small group of haters who make alot of posts to try to give the illusion that the whole customer base is dissatisfied with that platform and see it as bogus and Native as the present/future and if one who reads it is naive then one would fall for it. Some people believe if they scream louder and more often they'll be heard and believed (sadly such tactics work sometimes).

What happened to the previous Native synths that where so revolutionary and so much of a hardware/dsp-card replacers (Omnisphere, Synthsquad, Massive, AALTO, etc)? Overtime people see the flaws of those synths especially when better comes along and comparisons are made. Meanwhile my SCOPE synths have kept me from buying the vast majority of those 'latest and greatest' Native synths including DIVA (actually i've done far more selling then buying of Native plugins over the last few years and only own a very small number now) simply cause SCOPE synths are timeless not a flavour-of-the-week and they where built to a high-standard from the start. SCOPE synths have the best well-rounded-sound/well-balanced when you consider the whole sound of instruments, atleast this is the case to my ears. On Gearslutz someone uploaded audio clips that compared DIVA to their hardware and it sounded cloudy and less defined compared to the hardware and pluginish like still in some ways. There was a video posted comparing minimax to a moog and the minimax held its ground pretty well in my view. SCOPE synths tend to sound more CD-ready in my view and really don't NEED effects to make them sound smoother, punchier, etc. There is some Native fanboys who give in to wishfull thinking and state their Native plugins are equal to anything out there in hardware/dsp-card form and i don't believe they truly believe this cause if they where so secure with the quality level and future of their Native platform they would'nt jump into every dsp thread out of fear hateing. If Native is so good why feel the need to hate and force-feed info about its plugins to everyone? If something taste great you won't need to force feed it and if your secure with your platform's future then there's no reason to attack other platforms.

That said i do believe DIVA is the best sounding Native emulation synth and one of the best Native synths (I still prefer Gladiator and Firebird+ by Tone2). Diva is definitely progress and should push SCOPE developers to really raise the bar, but compared to SCOPE i just don't think Native is there yet. Usually time passes and time proves exactly what i'm saying about Native, just hyped up flavour of the weeks. The rap group Public Enemy had a good song that applies to what's going on out here called "don't believe the hype".

This is just my view and i'm aware others disagree and that it is not a absolute. I know some people genuinely like DIVA but there is no doubt some just hypeing it.

[dawman]

You are correct about the over hyping at GS. 2 of the guys I know are OK guys but got NFRs, and that usually does contribute to the over hype. But I do want them to build a Filter Bank as they have something happening there.

I remember paying in advance for Scope XITE-1 by 10 months, as I believe it would have helped as DSP Programmers are rather expensive.
I didn't think it would be as good as it was, so I was really pleased, and then had someone here tell me because I posted such positive things about Scope DSP that I recieved an NFR......

They don't realize whenever I buy something I am risking a future X Wife or relationship as I always go for the super babes, and the downside is they are all high maintenance and Pscyhos from Hell, and seeing 10 large go for gear, really infuriates them as they constantly need to be reminded of their desirability. But everytime I was getting angry eyes while wearing my IEMs, or being accusesd of being an ass kisser, I would just think of the XBox and smile.

And FWIW I dont kiss asses, I give facials. If you must succumb, dont be a half assed ass kisser, give them both hands and stand out from the crowd. I dont need to do this very much these days, but if an Agent was I woman I got the gig, most were men so Rita and my X worked them over.....For a year of 985 USD a week back in the mid '80s' in a lounge packed with girls who had to be top shelf to wear the skimpy thongs, .....you bethcha.

Mans gotta do what needs to be done. And I am not ashamed that I hung out in Gay bars where the drinks were free to save cash for gear.
Plus I learned all of those Big Arm movement dances , etc.

FWIW I always thought Omnisphere was over rated, tons of effects and samplesw mixed with synths. I wa doing this in hardware years ago and was alot larger sounding, but didn't have 5000 presets. Successful VSTi synths seem to be workflow based as a proirity over sound quality more than anything.

[jksuperstar]

Successful VSTi synths seem to be workflow based as a proirity over sound quality more than anything.

You hit the nail on the head there. But with more and more editors available (or required) with any hardware synth, that line is blurred in a welcomed way.

I imagine once copperlan and OSC are prevalent in hardware synths, a "hardware" / dedicated editor won't be far away. Oh, wait, the Lemur (and Lemur for iPad) already exist. cool.

[siriusbliss]

I agree.
The naive view of (perhaps) the younger folks out in the marketplace is that the number of presets and free bells-n-whistles makes a great synth.
And since they're all listening to compressed moosh via earbuds anyways, then the hype is very subjective.

I haven't bothered checking out any other synths, and I doubt I'll really miss any VSTi's anytime soon.

If the crack (drug) is free or cheap, then that's where the trend will go. Cocaine may be 'better', but hey crack is cheaper.

If the ACCESSIBILITY is easy (downloadable demos that run on your existing PC without needing any other hardware), then that's where the trend will go.

Sure, I think native will catch up, since the native devs are finally figuring out how to squeeze enough dedicated gigflops out of an i7, but the EFFICIENCY of the coding that leads to QUALITY of sound is still a ways off IMO.

In the end filters are just filters.

On the Samplitude forum there is currently a debate between the UAD guys and the native guys, and the argument is similar. Native users think that there are tons of VST's out there that sound just as good as UAD (debatable knowing the quality we have with Scope).
The debate evolved to UAD AND Soniccore against the world of VST's, and the main direction the thread eventually took was that the VST's had much more ACCESSIBILITY rather than it being a case of sound quality.

As if this was really a valid argument.

Friggin Hendrix played Strats, but I was always a Les Paul guy. Then I got into ES-335's. Now I don't give a shit and design my own hybrid guitar-beasts-o-doom.

I can still hear the difference between well-recorded drums up against ROMplers such as Superior2 (which I own and love) simply by how the drums throw out of the speakers.

DSP still rules the day IMO and IME. Throw Eventides up against the biggest juiciest native effect plugin, and we know who wins. Throw Scope up against native (especially in a live context), and we know who wins.

Greg

[siriusbliss]

And no I won't ever debate the sound quality of all the synths available for cheap/free for iPad, but hey they sure are fun, ACCESSIBLE, and very convenient just carrying them around on a small device like the iPad (which I have a certain personal relationship with).

Man I am SUCH a world-jumper - going from iPad to Scope.
Anyone mix iPad synths through Scope? Now THERE is a dichotomy.


Greg

[garyb]

Anyone mix iPad synths through Scope?

yep.

[the19thbear]

Before this thread goes into a scope vs vst thread:
I just want to make sure that people know that I love the scope system and the synths.i haven't heard any synth that could touch scope
Until now (vst that is). There is no way diva or scope will replace my Jupiter 4. My formant elektor modular or my sh1000.(and im sure not the solaris) But in my book it sure can compete with the scope synths and outperforms the minimax. I am sure that next year something will come out that is even better and closer to the real deal. - this might be a scope synth or vsti. I could care less.It will be hyped everywhere and forgot the year after. (especislly if its a vst! No matter how good it sounds)
I just think diva is one of the best things that have happened in the virtual synth world - scope and vst...I'm simply deeply impressed and wanted to share the joy so people could have more fun/make music. If it was a scope synth I bet we all would be praising it;) I'm sure that scope could produce just as good sounds am I'm sure it has. I just haven't heard it yet:)

Peace, love and harmony to all mankind:)

[garyb]

[dante]

I'm sure that scope could produce just as good sounds am I'm sure it has. I just haven't heard it yet:)

Sure, but to put it into perspective, we are comparing in the Minimax (something built with decade old technology) to something released only last year, and being amazed at the prospect that the new thing is actually at least comparable or better (for some)

[the19thbear]

Better=amazed. it doesnt matter when X or Y was made(at least for me). And you are completely rigth: My deepest respect goes to SC/CW for making an excellent minimoog emulation WAY before anyone else. And i still think its truly great.

[Mr Arkadin]

There is no way diva or scope will replace my Jupiter 4.

There's nothing on the planet that will replace my Jupiter-4, unless Roland re-siiue a new one (and they'd probably screw that up anyway).

But in my book it sure can compete with the scope synths and outperforms the minimax.

These are the sorts of statements I have problems with. What does that even mean, outperforms? I'm not Scope-fanboying here, I mean If you swapped the instruments around in that sentence it still wouldn't make sense to me.

Like dante said earlier about himself, I also feel that I have far too many synths (software) under-utilised and frankly I'm not a collector: I don't want folders full of hundreds of plug-ins - I have enough Scope folders like that. I need to use the synths I have and I will only now buy something if I really need it (i.e. it offers something in synthesis I don't already have).

[the19thbear]

Diva has different osc/filters etc. You can choose from minimoog, MS20, and Roland emulations. To me, when you choose an all minimoog emulation it sounds more "real" to me. That's it really.
I have never had a minimoog, but many monophonic analogs from that age (had a moog voyager, but i think its over-hyped, Minimax sounded just as good) - and there is simply something "alive" with synths from that period in time.. To me the livelines slowly starts going away the closer we get to DCO synths. The Jupiter 4 is, to me, the final frontier when it came to synths - then after that they slowly got more stiff sounding (the Jx8p, Juno 60, Juno 6 comes to mind).

-Diva has more "aliveness" - ehrmm... what a word.. than the minimax. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and we each have our own ears and references.
-I completely agree with you: it's always better to get to know what you have and use it to its limits than having 9999 different synths. I'll never get anything done then

[dawman]

I agree. If the crack (drug) is free or cheap, then that's where the trend will go. Cocaine may be 'better', but hey crack is cheaper.

I better stop packing my beak, and start smoking then. But can you still perform OK after smoking an 8 Ball..?

[spacef]

The diva is free of the aliasing found in most vstis and scope dsp synths. That's the main progress and the only reason why it got all those reviews (most people don't get it anyway, the mass understands this as "moog emulation"). I have gone through the presets again last night, but my ears did not meet that Moog flavor. The Roland flavours are more present eventhough it is not roland.
I don't think Diva is an emulation though. It still won't match a true analog. But It allowed me to have sounds that I can't get with all my other native/dsp stuff, that's the truth. But it is a VSTi, ie, all triggered notes will sound exactly the same. It is good, but I find that the charm of old instruments is in their small imperfections that make them sound alive (not that they go out of tune and such, but something else hard to define).
I made a couple of tracks with the demo of Diva, even at 120 bpm, you can easily bounce tracks with the demo. So make yourself an opinion and try it, because there is no doubt it is a good one. Actually, I like to think of it as the last soft synth I will buy in the analog emulation area... I use may be 5 vstis max now, and actually one or two are the "go to" synths (Diva, NI Razor, sometimes Gladiator or Blue). The tetra and the microzwerg will be the main synths, and these are not software.

[dante]

The diva is free of the aliasing found in most vstis and scope dsp synths. Actually, I like to think of it as the last soft synth I will buy in the analog emulation area...

Ill wait for the DSP version, then it will be the last Scope synth I buy !

There's nothing on the planet that will replace my Jupiter-4, unless Roland re-siiue a new one (and they'd probably screw that up anyway).

Oh dear - they never should have made that Jupiter80

I better stop packing my beak, and start smoking then. But can you still perform OK after smoking an 8 Ball..?

Yeah sure - if the audience scored some too

[jhulk]

the minimax is a moog emulation and its damn near but i would rather have the minimax as it stays in tune and you can play it polyphonically

the diva is way much more so its not fair comparing as it has a moog 3osc

it has an roland dual osc so can be juno jx3p jx8p jupiter

it has an alphajuno type osc

way more filters and the cascading of them

its more like a modular synth like the matrix12 than a mini moog

then theres stacking

which eats cpu up like no tomorrow 4 stacked slight detuned 6 poly that 72 oscs at the same time if all 6 notes are played

and it has a great detune section called trimmer so that every voice played can be set with a different detune like real analogs do naturally this gives beating

but you can do that in modular just by using 8 osc with detune this gives fat chorus beating osc

i have been doing that on the asr10 for 20 years and they have a noise setting so that you can cuase natural drifting in the osc

so the diva is like having a modular patch whewre you can swap out what ever osc or filter you want

wait a minute did not john bowen do this over 10 years ago with scope

and solaris can do it

but what diva cant do and would of been good is wave player and then it would of been able todo so much more

i like diva but im just sampling the hell out of it and using the samples in my scope modular project as i can sample 4 stacked presets and play them back as samples which takes no cpu resources

[Mr Arkadin]

Oh dear - they never should have made that Jupiter80

Don't even get me started

[faxinadu]

And FWIW I dont kiss asses, I give facials.

lol love you meng