Ft Hood

[garyb]

there are a lot of ideas there, and not all belong together. there's no doubt that it's a good idea to help each other and be good and kind. it's also important to be responsible and not to be naive. it's good to have organization, but security and peace are not from authority and force, they are from human kindness.

human kindness can be cultivated, but not forced. a weapon can be used to protect the weak, or the abuse the weak. the problem is never the weapon, but the person weilding it.

[braincell]

Weapons generally are not used for protection.

[garyb]

nonsense. many non-military weapons are used for protection. most are used for fun, for shooting at paper.

[braincell]

They are almost never used for protection and most frequently are used for bad intent. That is a fact.

[garyb]

that is patently untrue.

there are said to be about 192 MILLION firearms in private hands in the USA. if they were most frequently used for bad intent, everyone would be dead. they are infrequently used for bad intent. in fact, i'll lay odds that baseball bats are used for bad intent more often than guns, knives for certain.

[garyb]

So far so good.

You guys stay in the pattern.
So it is clear to me that it is an irrational fetish stemming from an even more uncivilised history.
Listening to this obviously non representative sample it almost seems to me that it is well known and accepted that it is irrational.

wow. that's one heck of an attitude.

thank you Dr. Freud, you old perverted coke-fiend, you.

[Gordon Gekko]

it's important to retain some wildness.

yeah i kinda miss the old creamware forum

[wayne]

yeah i kinda miss the old creamware forum

Where is DXL these days, anyway

- dusty, old mate - your pattern is a little haughty lately

Go global if you like - things are pretty bloody local where i live.

[Gordon Gekko]

haughty?
i never stopped lurking in here!
cheers to you wayne

now where is that credit card, I need to spend 2689€ fast

[siriusbliss]

They are almost never used for protection and most frequently are used for bad intent. That is a fact.

Then show us the stats.

Greg

[siriusbliss]

Just talk to police or social workers.

I personally know police, FBI, and military, and have discussed this at length. They all know the truth that guns are not the cause.

You guys can try to spin this around all you want, but it won't negate the basic fact that ontologically speaking humans are driven by survival and fear (and ultimately IMO having our true identity being 'found out').

The reptilian part of the brain is a more true issue. Transcend that and we'll all start getting somewhere as a species.
The brainwashing of ideologies, contrived stereotypes, and belief structures are an issue. Fitting things into predefined comfortable wordspeak gets you nowhere. Instead you are boxed into calling ALL gun owners, or anyone who prefers having a gun as a safeguard, as having some sort of fetish. Methinks you've watched too many propaganda films.

The denial of psychological attachment to notions, story, and fallacy is an issue.
No one asks if every day life is the true reality.
More driven by unsubstantiated ideologies adopted for comfort and to prevent being afraid (or to ultimately be found out).

Guns are not the issue. Politics, religion, stereotypes, race, etc. are what lies at the surface - manifestation of a much deeper problem.

I UNDERSTAND the ideological and peace-loving side of things (and even live by a more liberal, even pacifistic lifestyle), but to just get rid of all guns or the 2nd Amendment will not resolve the real underlying issue.
You can box things into convenient dialog like anti-Republican this, or anti-gun that, or whatever, but these too are unsubstantiated contrivances.

Just remember that you are ultimately on your own.

Greg

[garyb]

+1

add to that, "social work" is a concept born DIRECTLY of the UK and USA chapters of eugenics societies. "social work" is part of the nanny state process, where grown humans become helpless infants. it's time to respect humanity first, and ideologies and other parts of the grand creation will follow.

[garyb]

wtf are you talking about? it is an ABSOLUTE FACT that the first official "social workers" were created by laws lobbied for by eugenicists for eugenics purposes. this is well documented and not a "conspiracy" or having anything to do with a "comfort zone", but is indisputable FACT.

there were many such eugenics laws passed in the '20s and '30s, especially here in the USA(which A. Hitler sited as prime influences in such writings as Mein Kamph, where he praises UK and American Eugenicists as beacons in the darkness). in fact, until the '80s in some places in the Souhern and Eastern US still used "social workers" to forcibly sterilize single mothers, poor families and people with less than a "B" average in school. one of the leading eugenics workers in the early days? Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood.

this is all recent history that noone knows unless the look it up, it won't be taught in school, unless you ASK. this is part of why i ask your age. the older people (grand and great grandparents) remember this stuff. the kids under 30 have NO idea what has actually gone on to make the world they have inherited.

[braincell]

But back to the gun debate; a basic difference in opinion is that you think that ordinary citizens should be the police. I don't trust them. Some are trustworthy but not all and mistakes are made, guns are stolen, people drink and use guns. It's a very bad idea to let anyone own a gun!

Hunters using crossbows would be a compromise I could live with.

[dawman]

I happen to agree with the Crossbow theory. My brother has hunted this way since his LRRP days back in Nam.
I lack his patience and skill. If everyone gives up guns, and there's a trust and verify solution, I will learn to survive other ways.
I have Noonchucks that will overtake a violent knife yeilding criminal as the chain is 36".
I apologize for being a jerk too.
You just know how to get under my skin with absurd unfounded rhetoric sometimes.
I belong in the threads above unless it is truly off topic.
I shall refrain from being my natural self, as this forum is too valuable to me to encourage angry, unnecssary, never ending comebacks.
I am finished involving myself in these political debates.
Fair warning though, I tend to bite back when it comes to S|C and yes I am biased.
I prefer discussing musical opinions with you.

This forum is not for you or I only, but all of us.
Again My Condolances To The Families Of The Brave, And My Apolgies To The Members.


SIncerely For Once,

[braincell]

I have friends who use crossbows since I moved to rural Shenandoah. I tried it and hit the bulls eye my first shot. My only problem is I am not strong enough to pull the string back!

[garyb]

But back to the gun debate; a basic difference in opinion is that you think that ordinary citizens should be the police. I don't trust them. Some are trustworthy but not all and mistakes are made, guns are stolen, people drink and use guns. It's a very bad idea to let anyone own a gun!

this is also the problem with the police! the police have the highest level of on the job alcoholism and drunkeness, not to mention domestic restraining orders of any profession, according to government statistics.

[braincell]

I am glad the police are there and I trust them more than average citizens with guns as a whole. Police are an important part of our legal system. Some have a bad attitude. It seems like the kind of people who want to be police like to have authority over other people and guns help them get "respect".

[garyb]

you trust them, yet you think they are police in order to lord over others with guns. you are a walking contradiction, braincell.

the police are exactly as dependable as the average joe on the street, less so, if your theory of officers becoming police to have authority over others is true.

[braincell]

¥