PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

http://www.spacesynth.net/Interview/HuibSchippers

Here's a review of old Creamware cards, of course you must scroll down a little to read about this chaps pleasurable experiences with it..............

FWIW, I have a subscription to the Virtual Synth Magazine that went out of business last year, and then came back in business so I joined up.....I am still waiting for the NAMM review. I didn't read the fine details anywhere, I think they might have said something like....This is a magazine that only has 2 or 3 issues per year.....BTW, we can't afford to go to Messe either, but will do the 2009 AES show issue in 2011.......

Also I believe that SOS has an employee who left there to work at Media Ventures and provided some great information on Scope GigaDAW's. I immediately had my first one built after I read that article/review....

Cheers.

Spin doctor!? Not at all mate - I just take pride in my work and get offended when people accuse SOS of publishing things for political reasons, when that simply isn't true. I didn't join this forum so I could promote SOS, I joined it because I needed help with a product that, as much as I love it, is flawed in implementation, has shoddy documentation and requires most users to join a forum, ask dozens of questions, reinstall Windows umpteen times and generally pull hair out/swear at computer before it works the way they want it to! Most products don't require that much patience, and most people don't have that much patience in the first place, which is why people's opinions on CW are as polarised as they are. The fact that Gordon never got on with CW products before is neither here nor there, because he didn't review a CW product (let alone Scope) - he reviewed a desktop synth module - quite fairly, IMO - though I suspect you haven't read the full review and are basing your assumptions on the opening paragraph.

And besides, what is there for SOS to gain in printing people's negative opinions on a product?

Cheers,

Chris

stardust wrote:I know that Z sometimes tends to love scope

And you know what they say - love is blind

Reminds me of a recent Top Gear episode (for non-UK members, a car reviewing/driving programme from the BBC).

They road-tested three hatchbacks (something like an Audi, a BMW and an Alfa, though I forget the details).

In the end, the three presenters came to the conclusion that they would all rather have the Alfa... but they'd never recommend it to a friend!

I think the intro to the SOS article is what's creating most of the fuss here. Some of the comments did seem a bit below the belt re: Creamware's 'inflated claims, low-end, cheap' etc.

Also as much as it might be juicy insider gossip I don't think the following was necessary:

There’s no love lost between inDSP and Sonic Core, and Holger Drenkelfort of Sonic Core has gone on record to say that his company does not agree with inDSP’s use of Creamware’s technology.

Considering Gordon's attitude towards all things CW, I'm surprised he got wind of that. Having given SonicCore a mention in a review of a competitors product it might have been fair play to have given them a little more credit than 'Sonic Core has continued to manufacture ASBs'.

With all due respect to Gordon Reid (I loved his synth secrets series btw) I think this is just a case of a 'back-story' intro backfiring ...at least as far as most Pulsarians read into it.

At the end of the day the success or failure of the Plugiator probably doesn't really have any bearing whatsoever on the future of the Scope platform. However, bad press for SonicCore before they've even got their product out the door is a cause for concern.

Can't argue with that really - it's inevitable that reviewers impress their own opinions when they review, it just happens that Gordon doesn't 'get' Scope at all, which is a shame, as he might have had more positive things to say about previous CW products... Though you have to wonder, if he was a dedicated Scope user, would his opinion of the Plugiator been tarnished by the fact that UseAudio have been really quite cheeky in under-cutting Sonic Core? Quite possibly. As it turns out, he reviewed the Plugiator very much at 'face value' and from a potential purchaser's point of view, which is exactly what a review should do IMO.

(Also, I'm guessing that his describing CW's audio restoration products as 'low-end' is a reflection of the fact that Cedar are basically at the top of the restoration game - they do some serious forensic shit there that I haven't even begun to fathom yet!)

Cheers!

Chris

chriskorff wrote:... Though you have to wonder, if he was a dedicated Scope user, would his opinion of the Plugiator been tarnished by the fact that UseAudio have been really quite cheeky in under-cutting Sonic Core? Quite possibly.

True. I guess you could also argue that pointing out SC's opposition to InDSP's 'use of Creamware's technology' doesn't necessarily project a bad image. Depends what way you look at it I suppose.

Personally i feel it reads as not just anti-Creamware, but by inference anti-Sonic Core. "Look, UseAudio give you all this for £350, whilst SC are trying to rip you off with individual ASBs" is how it reads. No mention of Scope cards or the forthcoming XITE-1. Some editorial balance would have been nice - that's what editors are for isn't it? i may have to review whether i can still buy this expensive and over-inflated magazine in this time of recession.

Oh, and i had Pulsar2 and PowerSampler cards working in my Mac for years (and straight away), so i would say he's a bit of a plank to bring this up in the review.

chriskorff wrote: It's unfortunate that people without an eSub can't read the rest of the review

Don't be expecting in new subscriptions from he this forum .

I never joined this forum in the hope of getting new subscriptions, and if you're trying to rally support for some kind of SOS boycott on the basis that one of our authors doesn't like Scope very much, well... I can't stop you and I won't try. Best of luck, pal.

All I expect (indeed, hope) from this forum is the kind of excellent help I've had here already in getting Scope to work, and for that I'm very grateful. This is a forum I use from home, because I use Scope cards at home, and as far as I'm concerned it has fuck all to do with my job...

...UNLESS people here accuse either me or any of the other five people (I'm not joking) in editorial of not doing a good enough job, or somehow being persuaded to write good/bad things because we were paid to. That offends me personally because regurgitating press releases is easy, but I work fucking hard at my job, as does everyone else in the building (all 17 of them).

I've thought about this post a while now, and I've really tried to avoid saying this, but I can't: do you ever read the older (free) articles on the SOS website? Or browse the SOS forum? And do you ever wonder which Angel Of Pro Audio it was that put it there? Or how The Patron Saint Of Recording Technology managed to fund her?

Nothing personal Mr A, it's just that there's a prevailing attitude of "It's free, great, it'll always be there and I don't need to spend any money!" (cf. pirate music/music software downloads) that really isn't helping anyone a blind bit.

I hope I've said enough, because I really don't want to say any more about SOS on this forum.

Cheers,

Chris

i've bought SOS since at least 1986 i think - it was so long ago i'm not sure of the year. i rarely use the internet version as i have most of the stuff i want to keep in original hard copy. i am actually a big supporter of SOS over certain other publications as their 'reviews' are usually barely a page of text, two pages of photos and some industry spiel. i won't name them but they are not the future of music tech magazines that i want to see . i even give money to forums such as this one to keep going, so i am not in the "it's free, it'll always be there" camp.

chriskorff wrote:I never joined this forum in the hope of getting new subscriptions, and if you're trying to rally support for some kind of SOS boycott on the basis that one of our authors doesn't like Scope very much, well... I can't stop you and I won't try. Best of luck, pal.

i thank you for your professional distance that you've maintained over the years and in no way was implying that you ever had or would try and get subscriptions. Boycott? No, just reviewing my own finances and what i really need to be purchasing.

Just promise me you won't get Gordon to review XITE-1 when it comes out.

Best.

this is not an indictment of SOS, not by any means! SOS is a fine publication, at least as far as gear mags go. period.

the opening backstory has the smeel of a certain man, whom i won't mention, for politics' sake...

also, i don't care how knowledgable Mr. Reid is, he wrote some inflammatory print that could really hurt S/C when S/C has done nothing to hurt him. he may be VERY knowledgable, but he doesn't know everything, or he'd know that Scope DEFINITELY works.

Mr Arkadin wrote:promise me you won't get Gordon to review XITE-1 when it comes out.

+1

sharc wrote:Some of the comments did seem a bit below the belt re: Creamware's 'inflated claims, low-end, cheap' etc.

It's those comments that I have an issue with. It seems like a really cheap shot to be sniping at Creamware & Sonic Core in that sort of manner in an article that's not even about a Creamware or Sonic Core product, but a product of their competitors.

sharc wrote:Also as much as it might be juicy insider gossip I don't think the following was necessary:

There’s no love lost between inDSP and Sonic Core, and Holger Drenkelfort of Sonic Core has gone on record to say that his company does not agree with inDSP’s use of Creamware’s technology.

No I don't think it was necessary either. Gordon Reid shouldn't have mentioned Creamware or Sonic Core at all unless it was just to clarify the history of how inDSP spawned & where their plugiator plugins actually originated.

sharc wrote:bad press for SonicCore before they've even got their product out the door is a cause for concern.

Call me a paranoid conspiracy nut, but the timing certainly doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

Or we're just overprotective of our Scope cards?

As for Gordon Reid, it sounds like he holds a grudge about his Elektra experiences and his statements about the SC/CW situation occupied the first 5 paragraphs of the article. Since I'm in the US and don't currently subscribe to SoS, I won't be able to actually read the full article for another month or so asthe local "Geetarr" shop just barely got January on the shelf. So I can't comment on the rest of the article (but I will probably remember that intro when I see Gordon Reid's name).

Personally I like SoS the best out of the 'music tech' gear rags, and I have several times recommended as being less influenced by ad dollars & product placement, and as current as any magazine can be that isn't made of just electrons. In fact the only other magazine I make sure I get every month is Tape Op, but that one gets mailed to me for "Free" so runs afoul of the 'free stuff' sentiments above...

valis wrote:Or we're just overprotective of our Scope cards?

I bet yes...
I've taken some distance with any form of forums and web activity this last year (due to being extremly busy with setting up a media production company) and my (frequent) lurking here sometimes makes me smile. You guys are all BELIEVERS of SC and the DSP mantra.

Hare Sharcsna, hare Creamwa hare hare ! Hare Rama.

so? is that a reason to be trashed?

it sure is a popular way of living these days, ridiculing others to feel like one isn't ridiculous himself. Gordon Reid was out of line in the first few paragraphs, he also was UNtruthful, except in that he couldn't use his electra card. since others seem to be using them, possibly he's not as slick as he'd like to think. S/C NEVER did him any hurt. he shouldn't trash them, period.

Hola GAry, don't take it personally, I'm also part of this whole audio circus. But the fact is Scope is an aging platform that still can (will) be on the edge and has its part of admirators and detractors. Nothing religious in it but let's admit that Z is a very pro Scope community that is at the limit of sectarism sometimes.
But hey I still post here and I like the thinking behind keeping a workhorse because it's reliable and good sounding. It is against the economical prominent rule of "the latest is the greatest", and I like this !
I haven't read the whole article which is maybe on the positive side as Kristoff mentionned.
I personaly didn't found inside what was freely readable anything insulting for SC or the users.

It's good to be a modern dinosaurus !

I have read the whole article in hard copy form (I started the thread !!!)
I was surprised that Gordon Reid never reviewed any of the Scope vintage emulations as he has done the Arturia and G-Force stuff etc - (as it turned out with his bad Elektra experience he probably refrained from them)
He thought the emulations (Minimax, Pro-12 etc.) were not perfect but the sound was very good. The software was buggy - he thought a new version with no bugs would be a great bit of kit.
Actually, some of his comments are valid regarding bugs - perhaps some of the bugs in plugiator are legacy Creamware bugs. One thing I didn't like about Creamware was that they couldn't be bothered to fix the annoying bugs that everyone knows about e.g in the Modular. They never released updates (4.5 had the same bugs!) or patches. I hope Soniccore aren't the same.

Let's hope S/C Scope 5 / Xite-1 has as little bugs as possible - perhaps it's worth the delay.

Why don't they go for the challenge and get Gordon Reid to review Xite-1 and blow his socks off!!!!!! - the idea off NOT getting him to review it.....if it has bugs and faults it cannot be covered up - anyway what if Gordon Reid DID do that Elektra review and slagged it to bits ????

well, that would be the Final OSX Countdown, wouldn't it ?
actually Gordon didn't turn any facts regarding Creamware's past...
The (quoted) open offence directed at ProTools probably was FH's biggest mistake on a press release ever - and it's still online by SOS

But the history listing in that particular order at that particular position IS kind of seeding doubt in the product line of whoever is mentioned in this context.

thanks to Chris for adding the bit about Gordon's employment at Cedar...
of course one may smile down from above then

cheers, Tom