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pricklyrobot wrote:I'd think Sonic-core would be more motivated than ever to fix ASB bugs, now that you can get a second-hand Moog LP for the same price as a Minimax (granted the LP is mono but it's also real analog, and the polyphony frequently doesn't work right on the Minimax anyhow), and there's the new Prophet '08 desktop which is $1500 right now but in a few months when used ones start turning up on Ebay it probably won't be much more than a Pro-12.

The ASB's are becoming less unique by the day.

Agreed.

FWIW, I just got a quote for the P'08 module from Washington Music Center: $1320. Given that it's true analog and has all the features of the original Prophet, plus enhanced mod routings, four sequencers and an arpeggiator, most folks (myself included) will probably opt for this over the Pro-12.

gregae wrote:FWIW, I just got a quote for the P'08 module from Washington Music Center: $1320. Given that it's true analog and has all the features of the original Prophet, plus enhanced mod routings, four sequencers and an arpeggiator, most folks (myself included) will probably opt for this over the Pro-12.

Not to mention I've heard nothing but glowing reports about the customer service for Dave Smith Instruments. It'll definitely be the P'08 and not the Pro-12 I'll be looking at if/when my good ol' Prophet-600 gives up the ghost.

And if that's true about Sonic-core only supporting/fixing new products (though I still can't figure out why they would actually resume ASB production, as opposed to just selling off any remaining stocks, if that were the case), then it's torches and pitchforks time!

I totally understand that you opt for a DSI P08

I have got the Poly Evolver Keyboard, an awesome machine with awesome support from Dave himself. He send me a custom OS for the PEK and replaced my voicechips free of charge for my PolyEvolver rack

I already pre-ordered a John Bowen Solaris, so that my ASBs will be more functioning as a trackgap filler

gregae wrote:FWIW, I just got a quote for the P'08 module from Washington Music Center: $1320. Given that it's true analog and has all the features of the original Prophet, plus enhanced mod routings, four sequencers and an arpeggiator, most folks (myself included) will probably opt for this over the Pro-12.

Except that it absolutely does NOT have all the features of the original Prophet!

-john b.

johnbowen wrote:

gregae wrote:FWIW, I just got a quote for the P'08 module from Washington Music Center: $1320. Given that it's true analog and has all the features of the original Prophet, plus enhanced mod routings, four sequencers and an arpeggiator, most folks (myself included) will probably opt for this over the Pro-12.

Except that it absolutely does NOT have all the features of the original Prophet!

-john b.

Yes, I love the Polymod section on the Pro12/P5...

I just performed my weekly exercise in futility (-aka- writing Sonic-core support about ASB MIDI bugs). I'm going to keep it up, every Monday morning, until they answer me or block my e-mail address as spam, if they haven't already .

I wonder if there's any kind of German equivalent of the Better Business Bureau (for those not familiar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Business_Bureau). They're handy for holding businesses accountable (at least businesses that are members) for bad behavior --continually ignoring customer support inquiries, for instance-- that doesn't actually rise to the level of fraud or some other criminal impropriety.

stardust wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_protection

Right, but that only makes reference to various governmental agencies that protect people against unfair business practices, deceptive advertising, et cetera.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Creamware/Sonic-core has done anything that falls under the jurisdiction of any official consumer protection agency (crappy customer service, while annoying and ultimately detrimental to the business who engages in it, is not illegal.)

That's why I mentioned the (unfortunately U.S.-and-Canada-only) BBB, since they fill that gap of forcing their member businesses to address customer complaints that may be serious but aren't serious enough to warrant government involvement, civil action, or other legal remedies.

It has only been this last month that my corespondance between Sonicore has dropped off....Earlier in the year I was talking with Holger about the B4000 and Changing the Global channel to a midi channel other than channel 1..... for remote patch changes.....
He said that was a fix beyond a simple firmware update....meaning I would need to send it back in for a different chip set.....perhaps some of these bugs are beyond Firmware updates and in that case would require some down time......
keep trying them......they still sound quite interested with continuing the line.....we even discussed the CS80 ASB...

pricklyrobot wrote:

stardust wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_protection

Right, but that only makes reference to various governmental agencies that protect people against unfair business practices, deceptive advertising, et cetera.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Creamware/Sonic-core has done anything that falls under the jurisdiction of any official consumer protection agency (crappy customer service, while annoying and ultimately detrimental to the business who engages in it, is not illegal.)

That's why I mentioned the (unfortunately U.S.-and-Canada-only) BBB, since they fill that gap of forcing their member businesses to address customer complaints that may be serious but aren't serious enough to warrant government involvement, civil action, or other legal remedies.

slammah2012 wrote:perhaps some of these bugs are beyond Firmware updates and in that case would require some down time......
keep trying them......they still sound quite interested with continuing the line.....we even discussed the CS80 ASB...

Hey, if it takes more than a firmware upgrade, that's fine. I've said before (and others here have said the same) that I'd be willing to pay some money to get my ASB working properly.

The really irritating thing is that you're putting this possibility out there, second-hand, instead of Sonic-core posting on their website something like: 'hey, we know there are still some significant problems with the ASB's; some of these problems go beyond firmware upgrades and require new chips to be installed; this is when we're going to start taking ASB's back for chip upgrades, here's where to send them, and this is how much it will cost you'.

Of all the e-mails I've sent Creamware/Sonic-core in the year or so since I got my Minimax, I only received a response to the very first one (the e-mail asking for the authorization code to download the first firmware update from 2006).

I have no particular grudge against Sonic-core (aside from the aforementioned lousy customer service). I think the ASB's are [potentially] a great product and I hope they do someday make new ones. But I'm not going to be interested in plunking down $1000+ for that CS-80 ASB unless Sonic-core starts showing some initiative in fixing the products that it already has on the market.

pricklyrobot wrote:

slammah2012 wrote:perhaps some of these bugs are beyond Firmware updates and in that case would require some down time......
keep trying them......they still sound quite interested with continuing the line.....we even discussed the CS80 ASB...

Hey, if it takes more than a firmware upgrade, that's fine. I've said before (and others here have said the same) that I'd be willing to pay some money to get my ASB working properly.

The really irritating thing is that you're putting this possibility out there, second-hand, instead of Sonic-core posting on their website something like: 'hey, we know there are still some significant problems with the ASB's; some of these problems go beyond firmware upgrades and require new chips to be installed; this is when we're going to start taking ASB's back for chip upgrades, here's where to send them, and this is how much it will cost you'.

Of all the e-mails I've sent Creamware/Sonic-core in the year or so since I got my Minimax, I only received a response to the very first one (the e-mail asking for the authorization code to download the first firmware update from 2006).

I have no particular grudge against Sonic-core (aside from the aforementioned lousy customer service). I think the ASB's are [potentially] a great product and I hope they do someday make new ones. But I'm not going to be interested in plunking down $1000+ for that CS-80 ASB unless Sonic-core starts showing some initiative in fixing the products that it already has on the market.

Here, Here on all accounts. Totally with you Mr Pricklyrobot. I just want my ASB's fixed!

I got a reply from Ralf @ SonicCore asking what firmware I was using.
Will let you know how I get on.

Binny.

Good luck.

It is highly likely they are just going to point you to the latest firmware.

Ralf has totally ignored my last three emails chasing up his response as to letting me know what the developers said. Bad manners indeed!

The last email I even offered to pay for new chips to get my prodyssey working as it should and he still ignores me. Not sure what is going on as he always used to be a sound chap. I feel it may not be him but Soniccore themselves holding him back from responding.

He must be cleaning out his e-mail inbox.

I got an answer today to my recently instated every-Monday e-mail to Sonic-core. It was Ralf pointing me to the link for the Minimax OS ver. 2.00, and asking if I'd installed it yet.

I responded saying that I had done a year ago when I first got the Minimax, and that this OS (still the same one from 2006) doesn't correct the problems to which I'm referring.

Haven't heard anything back from him yet.

pricklyrobot wrote:He must be cleaning out his e-mail inbox.

I got an answer today to my recently instated every-Monday e-mail to Sonic-core. It was Ralf pointing me to the link for the Minimax OS ver. 2.00, and asking if I'd installed it yet.

I responded saying that I had done a year ago when I first got the Minimax, and that this OS (still the same one from 2006) doesn't correct the problems to which I'm referring.

Haven't heard anything back from him yet.

I said it before and I will say it again...

It is a damn shame how consumers are treated nowadays once the money is collected...

In fact it is a faulty device if the bugs dont get fixed IMO, maybe we should raise a fund to do it via Court

Septic wrote:

pricklyrobot wrote:He must be cleaning out his e-mail inbox.

I got an answer today to my recently instated every-Monday e-mail to Sonic-core. It was Ralf pointing me to the link for the Minimax OS ver. 2.00, and asking if I'd installed it yet.

I responded saying that I had done a year ago when I first got the Minimax, and that this OS (still the same one from 2006) doesn't correct the problems to which I'm referring.

Haven't heard anything back from him yet.

I said it before and I will say it again...

It is a damn shame how consumers are treated nowadays once the money is collected...

In fact it is a faulty device if the bugs dont get fixed IMO, maybe we should raise a fund to do it via Court

And if we loose do we get counter sued? Court scares me as I doe not want to end up as someones "Bitch" if I am flung into prison for having no funds!

Having played with a pro-12 I just acquired for a couple days, the stuck notes really seem to happen if I'm sending a CC while playing. IE, I can play on the keyboard for a *long* time, but if I start wanking on the mod wheel (CC1) while playing, bam, it's pretty easy to get a stuck note.

This is, of course, a very unpleasant work-around, and I agree, they should fix the software ASAP.

I love the Klangs and ASB's for sure.

I will always keep the B4000 / Pro-3t combo since it is really close to a B3 / 147 Leslie.

But as far as buying another ASB, or a DSI..............no way Jose.

Solaris is a beast, and even in it's infancy w/o the usual Bowen continuous upgrade path, there would be little need for anything else IMO.

Just playing w/ the version 5.0.8 BETA in software was convincing enough.

It is the only synth that could have replaced the Oberheim Matrix 12 / XPander combo, w/ a Yamaha QX-1 hardware sequencer.

Manipulate the Envelopes ADSR in real time w/ the Step Sequencer. Yeah Baby.

i just picked up my pro-12 yesterday and i get the same problem with those hanging stuck midi notes. DAMN it!!!! if only i had read up this in this forum, i would never had got it! i wish they fix this problem...

babar141 wrote:i just picked up my pro-12 yesterday and i get the same problem with those hanging stuck midi notes. DAMN it!!!! if only i had read up this in this forum, i would never had got it! i wish they fix this problem...

seems to work fine as long as the sequance dont repeat and you dont play over the same notes...

UPDATE:

Accidently came here after quite a while and I am baffled it is still not fixed.


I sold all my ASBS, thx soniccore for your good support and bugfixes...NOT....

I got a DSI P08 PE desktop instead of the PRO12 and it rocks, and I am still quite disappointed they never fixed the voicestealing/ENV retrigger bug...the PRO12 could be one of the best money/value synths around imo and in sound also really great...shame on you soniccore.....really..dont sell it if you dont wanna fix it, you cant say you didnt knew or that you will be fixing coz since well erm 2005 orso not much has been done to em FW-wise...5 years already...it still could be a good seller if you guys make it actually have the polyvoices you sell it for.

damn it should not be possible that this gear still is sold in the shops after all those years with know bugs and no support...i totally am done with creamware/soniccore and deriviates for ever.

The musical instrument resellers dont care either, but they dont know better. Or they do like they dont know.

When synth manufacturers are behaving this way, they must not complain afterwards that all gearheads go into DIY and modular synths and they dont have large sellfigures anymore like they had in the 70/80/90s..

k i am done with my complaints again take care guys...