PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

tom, sorry i dont quote you on everything but this s a response to your last 3 points

1. Yes i know. and i know i targeted commercials in my first reply. my point is though, Jacob is (yes i know this is an intentional thing) a key figure amongst "the others" in lost. Is it shocking that what is supposed to be a main character in a tv series is applied some myth and "occultism"? He has always been portraid as a bad guy, and we can ofcourse take the bible-reference even further

2. THIS is what i ask: How far can you go in entertainment before it is "bad"? You can portrait a guy going around killing people to get his case proven (read: every movie you saw that didnt make you cry) and its all OK.
However apply ONE GRAPHIC EFFECT to a movie and its suddenly manipulation. Do you see the contradiction? I know you are going to say "well this is a hidden agenda!" Well how so? Movies are in general pretty obvious as to what side of an agenda is the right side. Now tell me this didnt actually trigger research.


3. yup, of course i know face to face, otherwise scope would be dead long time ago

Its all not nececarily a hidden agenda, more than what petal allready stated, to make money.

BUT again, if i was to make a horror movie, would it be wrong of me to put everything i could afford into it effect wise, just to generate speech?

have a look at jj abrams woeks and you will know what i mean.

well, I probably put this one sentence about '...emotion is quickly superceed by ratio...' a bit too far from it's context, oops.
I completely agree about the money making background, but I have no idea at all what this series is about
so at least humble me cannot be manipulated
I also agree on the contradiction in typical film scripts, where the 'good one' is always granted an extra portion of superior rights. Up to supernatural survival of physical forces.

Nestor, you've always presented yourself as someone of high ethic values and I respect your concerns - even if I don't share them on this topic.

cheers, Tom

I watched part of one episode. I thought the reason it is called "Lost" is because I could not follow the plot.

Nestor, you think too much, that is your problem. It is the bane of modern civilization. We should all be hunting, planting, having sex, and raising children and that is all.

To be completely honest I don't think you should worry about it - meaning I don't think there's a scheme behind Lost other than making money by entertaining you in ways you've not experienced before.
Playing with your mind is one of the strongest effects in movies and television and has been since the beginning of cinema over 100 years ago.
It is far from uncommen to shuffle around with a lot of different intellectual cues in entertainment, written, visual or auditorial.
"John Locke" is not only one of the main charaters in Lost. It is also the name of a famous philosopher who was best know for his theory about "social contracts" and that: "Might is right". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke
"Dharma" is also a clue that bears meaning in real life: "´Dharma´ signifies the underlying order in nature and life (human or other) considered to be in accord with that order." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
Others have pointed out clues with roots in Christianity.
And there's prolly several other clues if you look for them.
It's elitarian entertainment, designed to entertain people "who have seen it all before".
Using conspiricy theory is only part of it all. And think about it, isn't Lost based on the very idea of a conspiricy? Who is responsible for them being on the Island in the first place? What is "the Dharma"-project all about?
To me it is quite obvious that the people behind Lost wants you in that grey area between fiction and "maybe it's true".
For example, I'm spending a lot of time right now to write this post about Lost, and at the same time Lost is being burned into my conciousness - it's branding and advertisement at it's best.
"Lost" is a product of modern entertainment, nothing more. And yes, it is manipulation, but show me commercial entertainment that is not.

Cheers,
Thomas

I watched about 5 minutes of the first episode of this stupid programme and I knew that it was going to be an exercise in stringing along a thin, vague bullshit plot into some kind of neverending mystery. Then I didn't watch it any more. I don't feel I missed out. It's pretty easy to switch off the TV and get rid of it. All these big-budget slick American TV series are severely lacking in substance and any kind of soul. Not really surprising when you realise that they are made by a bunch of coked-up marketing executives and hacks in order to make the maximum amount of money possible. In 20 years they'll be laughed at in the same way as 60s B-movies and 80s shoulderpad-heavy soap operas.

yup - that is also a way to put it. - Same shit same difference...

"What the fool cannot learn, he laughs at, thinking that by his laughter he shows superiority instead of a latent idiocy."
~~ Marie Corelli

zangsta - is this proverb directed at me? Personally I have no interest in studying the undoubtedly bad stuff being peddled in Lost because it means I would have to watch it. The implied point I was trying to make is that there's no point in watching any of this shit because there is never going to be anything rewarding in it - it's brainless escapism at best, and sinister propoganda at worst. For me, all TV is full of this crap, so I don't have it in the house at all. I laugh at this kind of trash culture because there is nothing of any value yet it seems that people cannot get enough of it. Yes it means I can't have a conversation with people about the crap we watched last night but who cares.. there's plenty of other stuff to talk about.

No, it´s directed to ALL on this thread that dodges Nestors findings, and step into evaluating the series as such.
If I was Nestor, I´d feel quite disapointed to a lot of the responses.
I suggest you re-read his post,
and think about what he actually says.
Does this thread reflect his finding, or even seem to take it seriously?
The quality of the play as such is not the topic.

The quote I found is not quite on the mark, I don´t think anyone here is a fool, just jumping to conclusions,
and perhaps guilty of sloppy reading, even prejudiced against taking Nestors finding as real.

Jörgen

57 channels and nothing on ....thank christ for sport
Face it boys ....we're all strangers in a strange land .
Australian Teev has the same problem as the Yanks , style over substance ....no appreciation of what it is to be human and the mistaken belief that if it's slightly weird then it must be interesting .
The Abbey Road Sessions is a good music show BTW

zangsta - sorry mate... but I guess I've been there and done that, done studies at university on TV advertising and all kinds of other personal research on the media. I only came to one simple conclusion and that is not to watch the shit because its sole purpose is to control you, your mind and your actions. I think you'd have to be stupid not to see how fucked up and evil a lot of the messages (both subliminal and blatantly obvious) on TV are. However I don't think anything is going to be gained by a hysterical campaign against 'Lost'. It's better to switch off the TV and not buy the DVDs... a lack of attention is the only thing that can hurt the purveyors of this stuff.

darkrezin wrote:zangsta - sorry mate... but I guess I've been there and done that, done studies at university on TV advertising and all kinds of other personal research on the media. I only came to one simple conclusion and that is not to watch the shit because its sole purpose is to control you, your mind and your actions. I think you'd have to be stupid not to see how fucked up and evil a lot of the messages (both subliminal and blatantly obvious) on TV are. However I don't think anything is going to be gained by a hysterical campaign against 'Lost'. It's better to switch off the TV and not buy the DVDs... a lack of attention is the only thing that can hurt the purveyors of this stuff.

I can only agree with you on this!!

Cheers
Jörgen

i KNOW that TV exists primarily for manipulation. i've read the scholarly works by the movers and shakers who have promoted it. you don't think that this kind of movement of energy and capital is solely a matter "consumer's" wishes do you?

why is a show on TV called a "program"? what is the definition of "program"?

This one is dedicated to darkrezin,
from one of the sharpest minds of it´s time;

I am gross and perverted, I'm obsessed and deranged,
I have existed for years, but very little has changed.
I'm the tool of the government and industry too,
For I am destined to rule and regulate you.
I may be vile and pernicious, but you can't look away,
I make you think I'm delicious with the stuff that I say.
I'm the best you can get.
Have you guessed me yet?
I'm the slime oozing out from your TV set.

You will obey me while I lead you
With the garbage that I feed you,
Till the day that we don't need you.
Don't go for help, no-one will heed you!

Your mind is totally controlled,
It has been stuffed into my mould.
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold.

"That's right folks, don't touch that dial"

Well I am the slime from your video, oozing along on your
living room floor.
I am the slime from your video, can't stop the slime people
look at me go.


Frank Zappa, "I´m the Slime" from around -72

Ha… it is interesting to read your fast conclusions. I never bought these three DVD, who said that?

I didn’t say I know what is going on either, I said that I don’t know why they do it and what their purpose is, but I know they do, that’s all.

Zagnsta, thank for reading what I have actually written...