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is there any differences between your device and that of digital Audio Soft? Just kidding...

Great GUI indeed. Let's talk about the sound now...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-10-02 06:58 ]</font>

On 2006-10-02 06:57, bill3107 wrote:
is there any differences between your device and that of digital Audio Soft? Just kidding...

Great GUI indeed. Let's talk about the sound now...

The sound is great...
No let's not talk about it and wait for the final demo. You'll hear, that it sounds great. I just built in a new modus and this as with most other features make this device a very, very unique & one of the most complex ones on SCOPE platform.
I try to be patient myself, cause I want to show you (as device-demo) an excellent device in a state where it is finished. Time of making quick experiments and throwing out a newly styled device every day is over for MOVEQ+.
I hope to bring up some news soon.

Martin

good strategy, martin... love takes time

This is what I was looking for! Good move!
Since last week I'm a UAD Cambridge owner because a gift voucher, but I think that this beast could be the best

damn, martin...

seems it doesn't even have to do anything but sittin' around in a corner (of the desktop) and looking damn good...

maybe you should, though, reconsider the use of pots. I like both types, indeed, but I feel you should make consequent use of either the one with the led (wtfi the name of led-kranz in english?) _or_ the position-glow-around-thingy look. while thinking about it... do 2 different versions/looks to choose from, and it will have my vote. no, both will

and, yes, when exactly did you want to do the roll-out?

-greetings, markus-

maybe you should, though, reconsider the use of pots. I like both types, indeed, but I feel you should make consequent use of either the one with the led (wtfi the name of led-kranz in english?) _or_ the position-glow-around-thingy look. while thinking about it... do 2 different versions/looks to choose from, and it will have my vote. no, both will

and, yes, when exactly did you want to do the roll-out?

-greetings, markus-

I can't really get what's your point As far as I can get it: The "led-kranz" is important to show the 'real' value of the movement. The knob shows what you set as 'basic' value. You can disable moving "led-kranz"!

Today the device definatively reached kind of final status. I'm waiting for some last test-feedbacks, I'm writing the manual and shroomz and I correcting some little visual things.

New features will be uncovered with the release. I bet SCOPE4LIVE will love it. There will be some killer-news! Something really new to a SCOPE-EQ... but as I said. I'm learning to be more patient right now. Keeping the tension - that's what my flute-teacher teached me when playing BACH.

That's what I can say so far. I can't give you an exact release date, but 'soon' has allready come much closer!

martin


B.t.w. Sorry here it's not sitting... It's playing all the time and I can understand that you can't wait to get your hands on it...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-09 10:52 ]</font>

hi martin,

I can't really get what's your point As far as I can get it: The "led-kranz" is important to show the 'real' value of the movement. The knob shows what you set as 'basic' value. You can disable moving "led-kranz"!

sorry, you're right. you did not exactly understand what I mean
I'm definitly fine with the "led-kranz" as well as with the moving glow around the other pot (right side). I just wanted you to stay with _one_ type of pot within the surface. my suggestion is, thus: if using the "led-kranz version, use it for _all_ pots; if using the ... well, give me a better name for the "moving-glow-around-thingy-kinda-pot"... then use it for _all_ pots within the device. this is, of course, only my little suggestion, but expect me making this wish again (before opening my wallet .

I agree with you that the feature "led-kranz", be it either the segmented or the other version, is a very helpful feature, and I don't want it disabled. It's just a question of continuity (imho).

while (again) thinking about it... would it make sense, and if, would it be possible to make the meters unsegmented as well, if using the famous "glow-around" pots? I'm not sure if the meter accuracy gets a bit worse with that, but I have no comparable device in mind while not sitting in front of the scope machine...

one could, unreasonably, think of a "meters and pot style" switch to change the interface to what he likes most....

Today the device definatively reached kind of final status. I'm waiting for some last test-feedbacks, I'm writing the manual and shroomz and I correcting some little visual things.

maybe you even consider what I said above. or maybe at least for the next minor upgrade. and as you already did a customized build (I remember the eminardi edition) I have some kinda hope. yes, exactly, the thing you should never give up.

B.t.w. Sorry here it's not sitting... It's playing all the time and I can understand that you can't wait to get your hands on it...

I seem to have at least the chance to stick it to my desktop. well, as I'm as well busy these days I can wait. patience is my second name.

-greetings, markus-


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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kylie on 2006-10-10 00:11 ]</font>

I think the different pots are usefull in illustrating what are controlls and what are in/output attenuator/boosts.

On 2006-10-10 05:24, voidar wrote:
I think the different pots are usefull in illustrating what are controlls and what are in/output attenuator/boosts.

this is probably the intention. but in my opinion it was already made different by using unequal indication colours. the gain pots are orange/yellow and thus differ enough from the others (again, thats my opinion

reading the thread again and with more open eyes on the gui I seem to grasp the necessity for using the led ring ( <- this being the term behringer uses for their bcr rotary encoders) on gui elements that not only have to represent the value I chose but also the actual value, dynamically assigned by the way moveq+ works (to show the difference between both values). thus it is not necessary to use the led ring type pots on things like i/o gain (although it would be possible, I guess, but not the other way round)

while we're at it... some things are still nebulous to me:

- why are some led rings absolutely unlit? a realtime zero value might be the answer, but it doesn't make sense to me for the frequency knob (upper f pot on band 3). well, if the frequency of the eq band is dynamically adapted as well... but 0Hz makes, again, no sense to me...

- what value do the numbers represent? I assume the manually chosen ones, but maybe you can confirm this

- what is the function of the sliders?

I no audio pro, as you can guess, but I'd like to make most of a device. understanding what (more or less) exactly it does could help much in developing skills and knowledge, what was my reason for joining this forum. not everything is selfexplaining to me (and that is not limited to your devices ), so my hope is again that shroomz will present an excellent manual that goes deeper than just naming the knobs. putting a big bucket of basics into the manual could make this device even more valuable than its intended function, by providing information that others are lacking. martin, you always said that your learning curve went up straight while making all these things, so let us poor souls* take part in the learning process

*) I assume it's not only me lacking audio processing knowledge. if all of ya know all about it, ignore this sentence. well, ignore the whole posting

-greetings, markus-

Hi!

A user manual will be available upon release which should answer your questions about the various functions of MOVEQ+.

- why are some led rings absolutely unlit? a realtime zero value might be the answer, but it doesn't make sense to me for the frequency knob (upper f pot on band 3). well, if the frequency of the eq band is dynamically adapted as well... but 0Hz makes, again, no sense to me...

- what value do the numbers represent? I assume the manually chosen ones, but maybe you can confirm this

Yes & we will try to make the manual as clear as possible.

Some short answers, but they won't for sure cover all your questions 'bout that really complex device.

2. You are right. The values are the chosen ones.

1. So frequency settings (you are right again) goes from 20Hz-20kHz. Lowest value therefore is 20Hz. 'Realtime-values' as you call it are displayed with the ring. Lowest values (not in all cases 0) are displayed (not like in behringers BCR) as no light in the ring(Behringer shows one LED).
In the actual version this is a consequent principle even with the main-gain-knobs (If there are negative-values they will be displayed left, 0 will be no light & positive values are displayed right).

As with most well designed devices (not with all of my devices ) a manual is not needed when systematically testing out the possibilities & knobs of a device. I promise, there will be none of your questions unanswered - when you ask it in the surely upcoming MOVEQ+ thread. And I promise that when you use the device many things will become clear almost immediately. We could make a FAQ too - but that will take some time (till some Q are FA )


Martin


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-10 08:11 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-10 08:13 ]</font>

A user manual will be available upon release which should answer your questions about the various functions of MOVEQ+.

yes, that was promised already. no chance to step backwards

Some short answers, but they won't for sure cover all your questions 'bout that really complex device.

yes, and since it is that complex your explanations are always welcome

1. So frequency settings (you are right again) goes from 20Hz-20kHz. Lowest value therefore is 20Hz. 'Realtime-values' as you call it are displayed with the ring.

how would _you_ call it, then? if we spoke the same language (not literally, as we do already ) we could make sure we talk about the same thing. no led means 20Hz, ok, saved to memory.

In the actual version this is a consequent principle even with the main-gain-knobs (If there are negative-values they will be displayed left, 0 will be no light & positive values are displayed right).

that seems quite easy to understand, even for me

As with most well designed devices (not with all of my devices ) a manual is not needed when systematically testing out the possibilities & knobs of a device.

yes, I'm definitely willing to do so. I hope that the demo will not be limited too much. otherwise one cannot tell if the change made is too subtle or the feature is simply disabled

I promise, there will be none of your questions unanswered - when you ask it in the surely upcoming MOVEQ+ thread. And I promise that when you use the device many things will become clear almost immediately.

I hope it will be that easy I should probably get some more in touch with your previous devices. there's still a lot to try...

-greetings, markus-

how would _you_ call it, then? if we spoke the same language (not literally, as we do already ) we could make sure we talk about the same thing.

I would call it 'Realtime value'. It's a good idea, to call it that way

If creamware allows a demo, there will be no functional limitations at all, only the 'standard interrupt' after some time.
Nothing speaks against a fully functional demo so far. I won't promise, because it will be decided in the moment we make it. I don't want to build a device which you have to buy blind (äh deaf). That really would make no sense.

I'm very happy that you're interested in our device. I hope it will please you in the end.

Martin

On 2006-10-10 06:54, kylie wrote:
- what is the function of the sliders?

The sliders adjust the amount of positive or negitive modulation of the 3 EQ parameters on each band (the EQ parameter next to each slider per band)

Hope that helps

The sliders adjust the amount of positive or negitive modulation of the 3 EQ parameters on each band (the EQ parameter next to each slider per band)

I never felt like adjusting the amount of modulation for that values, but then, it is a kind of device I never used before, so let's modulate them

-greetings, markus-

*lol* Markus, your really funny & you're right again. Some tech-guy-nerd sitting in front of SDK and inventing devices with everything moving what's technical possible...
This really has to be the first question:

Why modulating Qality, Gain & Freq of an EQ?

One of the most important things in music for me is dynamic & sound and for sure the combination of both.

I first found that sidechaining compressors and expanders to another source (bass kicked or pushed down with bassdrum or other way round, Keyboardpads changing volume with voice on another track etc. etc. makes music extremely more lively. Nowadays some people kill music with compressing it to death - making everything equal in volume...

I think one of the most important things we miss since Analog tapes left many studios is (very subtle) crossmodulation between different sources.

Good musicians even don't need any technical equipement for that - they react to other instruments on their instrument and this is what makes music living.

For me good music is the reaction of sounds to each other - like a communication. Even in hardest dance technos you'll find that extreme breathing & pumping-effects, when bass & other instruments are beaten down by bassdrum. That way the music get's a swing, a feeling, movement... (Sorry for my poor english)

=>

1. Moving gain of frequency bands is one thing you'll find in deessers, multiband-compressors & some other kinds of filter layouts...
Moving the gain of a certain frequency by the beat of the drums makes the sounds react to each other and so getting closer - they loose their distance, thei're not standing just one and then the other but both together in the music.
Of course it can be very helpfull to adjust gain automatically just when a frequency is too high - or you want to push it when it's too low...
So many possibilities...

2. With frequency it's as easy as with gain: Everybody knows filtermovements and I think they can be very nice when using them carefully on nearly every instrument. Why pushing only one frequency? Why not making it more lively and changing (in a certain area)?
For sure you can even build Auto WahWahs with moveq+ & there are other experimental ways which you will see & hear when the device is released...

3. Q is for sure the most subtle factor. It is something between the both others. It can be used to make a frequencyband more narrow (and with that lowering volume) or widen it and becoming more 'fat'. If you let these things depend on other sound sources you'll be able to get a kind of fatness-logic in that ... The louder the singer sings the wider become the Pad sound , the more silent the singing is the more agressiv become some EQ-bands...

Maybe one will change loudness corresponding to that, maybe one lets the frequency drop while the singer comes in...

whatever...

One has to hear it, but I like to try to express it in words

Martin

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-10 13:56 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-10 13:58 ]</font>

Some tech-guy-nerd sitting in front of SDK and inventing devices with everything moving what's technical possible...

well... that thought crossed my mind, indeed, when you started developing and came up every now and then with a new device...

Why modulating Qality, Gain & Freq of an EQ?

a question (including the answers) that should definitely find its way into the manual. *hint*

1. Moving gain of frequency bands is one thing you'll find in deessers...
...
2. With frequency it's as easy as with gain:
...
3. Q is for sure the most subtle factor. It is something between the both others. It can be used to make a frequencyband more narrow

I think 1 and 3 sound kinda familiar to me, I still have to admit that I didn't actually make use of such functionality before. I think feedback destroyers work somehow that way, automatically setting filters and narrow or widen them if necessary, while maintaining gain/loss of that frequency band.

may I do at least partially compare this functionality to some of the possibility of moveq+?

maybe I grasp number 2 too, while working with moveq+ yes, when it's done. .oO(this won't be another DNF, will it? )

while you're focusing on making it dynamic, will there still be the possibility to switch of all the dynamic stuff and use it non-dynamic? I think setting the sliders to zero should do the trick, but maybe there's a button that makes them jump to the middle when pressed. there already seems such thing just below ef gain, but I'm afraid that it could be there for turning the whole eq band off...

-greetings, markus-

well... that thought crossed my mind, indeed, when you started developing and came up every now and then with a new device...

I hope you then thought (after trying them out): Wow, these devices - for example LC1 - just sound better than CW ones- with some simple knob turns when trying them out... and they are free! ... CW never had softknee in their free comps, LC1 does that job very flexible...

These thoughts crossed my mind now after reading :

Did you try it out, the LC1?
Did you try MOVEQ classic/fresh?
Did you try SATTeQ? (O.K. this one looks still ugly, but it's easy to use and sounds great)
Did you try XL? - Thatone is really simple, you even have a demo-sound...

I made some great sounds with all of them without spending much time with settings - just listening.

a question (including the answers) that should definitely find its way into the manual. *hint*

Hint has come to the right place in the right time. Thanks

I think feedback destroyers work somehow that way, automatically setting filters and narrow or widen them if necessary, while maintaining gain/loss of that frequency band.

On MOVEQ+ you set your own settings. And yes, the button you mentioned turns off movement. very simple. I think you have a really good feeling for our device

There is another button to turn off the 2EQ-groups. Guess which...!

"Automatic" should be the wrong term, cause you do it with your ears and your knowhow. MOVEQ is - when using it to the MAX (!!!) of it's possibilities nothing for musicians who like to turn 2 knobs to get their standard sound.
You will be able to get nice sounds with just turning the knobs, but you should listen carefully to whats happening. You can use MOVEQ+ in a very simple way, but if you know how, you can do lots of advanced things which need rather a book than a manual and some time for it when beeing new to it - as it is with producing & recording. For the advanced things you simply need the time. There is no book about SCOPE, that's sad, but it should be a very big book ... an endless book? ... a book about recording in general?

I think it should be O.K. doing the manual as good as possible and answering questions which arise.

Your proposals & questions are really at the right place to the right time. I'm thinking about some space on the homepage for clearing up special things & tricks.

I will take the time and explain that stuff, when I have nice examples & ideas how to show it. It won't be done in 30minutes to get all that things when you're new to it.

maybe I grasp number 2 too, while working with moveq+ yes, when it's done. .oO(this won't be another DNF, will it? )

What is DNF?
By the way... what music are you recording/composing/arranging...?

while you're focusing on making it dynamic, will there still be the possibility to switch of all the dynamic stuff and use it non-dynamic? I think setting the sliders to zero should do the trick, but maybe there's a button that makes them jump to the middle when pressed. there already seems such thing just below ef gain, but I'm afraid that it could be there for turning the whole eq band off...

This will be definatively a chapter in the manual (just joking ):

10 Examples of turning off the dynamic stuff:

1. Turn off with button under EF
2. Turn off EF gain
3. Set fader to 0
4. enable a "pre-follower-insert" without an effect in it
5. load an insert which is out of order
6. Turn all values to max and set faders in same direction
7. hit the bypass button
8. Take of your SCOPE-card while computer is running
9. Set incoming signal to zero
10. turn off all bands of MOVEQ+ and load another EQ in the pre or post insert of MOVEQ+
11. turn off all bands of MOVEQ+ and load MOVEQ+ in pre or post insert and do one of the points 1-10.

i think 4 things are most important with all this (could be more when thinking about it): Making musik, doing things you never did before, listening, having fun.

5. trying all my freeware-stuff

Martin

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-11 11:26 ]</font>

Awesome and certainly confortable to use. This will be a great proyect I guess, well done!