PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

On 2005-11-13 10:32, Atomic Marshmallow wrote:
...or are you saying that I don't need the pro version as it only has a couple of extra features the free one doesn't have?

you do not seem to know (or care) about those couple of extras - sack the program
I originally assumed you had that version intentionally to be on the safe side with email attachments and spyware, too.
For the firewall only there's no need to pay 50 bucks/year.

What do you mean by wrong places? Can you specify an example please?

god beware
I try to avoid certain words, as search engines (like Google) index this place and the context attracts the wrong kind of people.
it's about sites which provide downloads of software with removed protection, serial numbers, sparly to none dressed guys 'n gals - sometimes referred to as the red-light-district-of-the-internet

...you could use Zonealarm to study network safetey. ...
You'll find experiences of other users and even tutorials.

well, you don't have to - I meant simply (if you're interested) to improve your knowledge about network operation and safety.
It's not exactly required, but often very handy - and it's better to know at least a little bit how these things work.

Those network breakdowns (covered in news) when another 'worm' program spreads with an avalanche of network traffic, have 2 reasons:
an idiotic operating system (that makes the attack possible at all)
and users without any idea about what they click and do.
there are thousands each day who open obscure email attachements because '...it cannot harm, our department has anti-virus software'
if you cannot laugh about the last sentence, then it's probably time to refresh some basic knowledge

cheers, Tom

Once again thanks for your responses!!

Stardust it seems that my modem/router firewall is a NAT one, so I guess then I need to continue using my software asweel in order to have "proper" protection? Seeing I use the paid for pro version , which apparently gives me more protection should I stick with it or will the free version suffice? I'd rather be safe than sorry.

My apologies for constantly asking questions regarding this topic, but I lack a lot of knowledge in this particular area.

Thanks

all current router/modem combinations do NAT and have a firewall built in, which is usually active by default and blocks anything (by default) except 'regular' web access.
As Stardust wrote, the capabilities of these firewalls vary, but this doesn't have to concern you - your couldn't operate a sophisticated one anyway due to your admitted lack of knowledge

So I'd rather suggest you keep ZoneAlarmPro at least until you know better (opposed to my previous post).

Internet - modem - NAT - firewall - router - yourlocalnet - your PC

the modem does nothing but physically transform the signals
NAT translates between a public network adress (which you get from your provider) and a local adress (provided by your box).
The latter acts as a door to the internet for your PC and is usually referred as 'gateway'.

It's the job of the router to translate the adresses of data packets between these two rings:
the outer one (Internet) and the inner one (your local net), which is 1 humble system, but qualifies as a net technically

The 2 rings have intentionally incompatible adresses, so no machine from outside can directly access your PC, which in turn cannot get outside (even with a proper physical connection it couldn't because the network numbers don't match).

All and every traffic has to go through the router box and it's programs as there are: firewall and NAT.

in fact it IS complicated, but only in description, the box does it all automatically.

maybe this 'visual' representation of the traffic path makes it easier to understand where the safety mechanisms are placed.

The separation of adresses is the biggest hurdle to directly access your box.
Otherwise (for example) your printer would be visible on the internet if you have clicked 'share with others' - not exactly useful, but could be annoying...

The firewall further refines this as it knows about which types of data packets belong to which application etc, and if it's a good one it peeks at each single bit that crosses it's line and filters out what's considered inappropriate.
Don't worry about the details, the standard setup works pretty well.

All this covers only safety concerns with more or less direct connections between machines. The NAT makes it 'less direct' and the firewall additionally inspects and filters data packets.

It does not cover at all the risks of stuff you load on your computer and THAT is a far greater concern today.

Any program you load via the internet could (potentially) have hidden content that either installs a virus program or turns your machine into a kind of server without that you even notice.
The latter isn't exactly true in your special case, as the modem connection is very slow by nature, so your machine would probably 'feel' strange in such a situation.

A firewall is of no help in this context, as it can only inspect single data packets - it cannot (for obvious reasons) detect something in a packed program file.
It wouldn't even bother as you downloaded it via regular web access, which is allowed.

that's why I suggest you keep ZoneAlarmPro - today the firewall is your least concern, as most 'attacks' are done by moving hidden content to your machine via regular file transfers or email attachments.

cheers, Tom

Wow!!! Thanks Astroman for your lengthy response. I really appreciate the trouble you have gone through (and everyone else who has responded) to answer my queries !! PlanetZ has a lot of very helpful people and is a valuable source of information.

One final question on this subject and I will never raise the issue again.

I don't seem to be able to play online games anymore. I have succeeded with some connections but most of the time I haven't. So it seems just pot luck. The help desk of my ISP say I shouldn't need to open up ports to be able to play. But some people are saying I need to allow access to certain ports. But then why is it that I have been able to play some games and not others. Prior to getting this new modem, I had no trouble. And is it safe to allow access to gaming ports?

On 2005-11-14 16:50, Atomic Marshmallow wrote:
...But then why is it that I have been able to play some games and not others. Prior to getting this new modem, I had no trouble...

this depends on how the games are programmed - not all created equal.
As explained above: in your prior setup the game server could 'see' your machine directly (required for some games), as your ISP assigned a COMPATIBLE adress when you connected.

He still does the same with your new box, which pretends to be your PC to the outside world.
In reality the box forwards the incoming traffic to a local network adress and this one is NOT COMPATIBLE with the adresses used outside your network.
That's why it's called NAT (Network Adress Translation)
It is this way for safety purpose.

can't help you with details regarding game setup - but afaik the router does the same as above just the other way round.
It has to be configured according to the requirements of the game

cheers, tom

Sorry I wasn't clear enough in what I was saying.

What I meant to say was, that playing the very same game (Generals by the way, an RTS strategy just in case you didn't know), I could connect sometimes, but most of the time I couldn't. So just playing generals and not any other games, I could coneect sometimes, or someone could connect to me if I was hosting, but usually it didn't work.

yeah, that's a different story, but it's explained above between the lines

previously you had a slow direct connection that passed the data packets to the game.
The packet size was optimized for a modem

now you have a slow (external) network feed, and the data passes through 2 hardware interfaces.
But I guess the most significant fact is that your network packet size in windows is set to the local area default, which is ethernet based, while the actual 'feed' of the network is done by a modem, which works more reliable with a smaller packet size.

The larger the data packet, the bigger the risk it's damaged. The modem's error correction detects this and requests the packet again - and the procedure repeats.

the item is called MTU (maximum transmission unit) and is set in the network control panel, possibly also in the router/modem.

cheers, tom

Without re-inventing the wheel, you could always just try this if you're still using Zonealarm.



They built this simple method into Zonealarm for people who don't understand networking protocols & how to set them up. In reality i'd say it's the *fastest* way for a Zonealarm user to connect & disconnect and one which i use constantly for xtra security.

The picture says it all really, you just right-click the Zonealarm icon to get the pull up menu. It's very fast.......
right-click...scroll...left-click to switch on or off.

On 2005-11-15 01:47, astroman wrote:
yeah, that's a different story, but it's explained above between the lines

previously you had a slow direct connection that passed the data packets to the game.
The packet size was optimized for a modem

now you have a slow (external) network feed, and the data passes through 2 hardware interfaces.
But I guess the most significant fact is that your network packet size in windows is set to the local area default, which is ethernet based, while the actual 'feed' of the network is done by a modem, which works more reliable with a smaller packet size.

The larger the data packet, the bigger the risk it's damaged. The modem's error correction detects this and requests the packet again - and the procedure repeats.

the item is called MTU (maximum transmission unit) and is set in the network control panel, possibly also in the router/modem.

cheers, tom

Sorry, I don't quite fully understand (excuse my ignorance). So how do I solve the problem of not being able to play online? Out of ten attempts only one connection has got through. So I don't get it!! Either it should block all or none at all!!
P.S. i know I said I would drop the subject, but I love my online gaming occassionally and I have not been able to play.

Thanks

you solve ANY problem by starting to activate that grey matter which usually fills the ball (or similiar shape) on top of your body...

did I mention the item firewall only one single time in the quote above ?
so who's supposed to block what ?
the dropouts of the line have nothing to do with a firewall at all
that's clearly written and also what the item is called.
so the last hurdle is left as an exercise for the reader...

of course you're invited to ask me questions without even the attempt to think.
In those cases I usually spice the sh*t I've written during this thread with some hands on experience and deal with it from breakfast to lunch - for a 300 bucks fee.

I know the network topics aren't exactly easy to understand for a beginner, that's why I offer some help.
But I'm getting the impression that all you're after is someone to fix your gaming problems - and then forget about it as soon as possible.

That's not called help - that's service - and that's what I usually charge for...

cheers, Tom

On 2005-11-15 16:50, Atomic Marshmallow wrote: Sorry, I don't quite fully understand (excuse my ignorance). So how do I solve the problem of not being able to play online? Out of ten attempts only one connection has got through. So I don't get it!! Either it should block all or none at all!!
P.S. i know I said I would drop the subject, but I love my online gaming occassionally and I have not been able to play.

Stardust & Astroman have covered most of the bases on this subject. There's no definative answer to the question 'why can't i connect to play online games' as there are dozens & dozens of potential causes of your problems.
Also, if this is now your only problem, a games forum may well be the place to find the answers.

If the problems are new to the setup since installing the new router, then it's pretty obvious that you need to take a very close look at how it's configured. Is it one with an online configuration console or what ? If so, have you checked the router configuration settings with the utility ? I'd start there if you haven't already. Also, what browser are you using ? We had trouble with a bug in Mozilla 1.7.5 (or maybe a problem with our OS install, not sure, but it's now fixed)

In Mozilla Go to.. Edit/preferences/Advanced. With the option under 'quick launch' which reads 'Keep Mozilla in memory to improve startup performance', you may well not b able to connect frequently if this option is checked. We were having loads of problems connecting due to multiple instances in memory. Switched this option off & now it's sweet. Haven't had a failed connection once since changing this.

If you don't use Mozilla, i think the problem is likely to be with your router & network interface config, which i'm sure Astro or Stardust or someone could help you with, given more details (like all of the details you have including router & network card config settings)

About the internet clock adjustment. You find it in Start menu/settings/controlpanels/date&time - there is a tab 'time from internet'. The names of all the above can differ as I use a Polish version of XP.

On 2005-11-15 20:44, astroman wrote:
you solve ANY problem by starting to activate that grey matter which usually fills the ball (or similiar shape) on top of your body...

did I mention the item firewall only one single time in the quote above ?
so who's supposed to block what ?
the dropouts of the line have nothing to do with a firewall at all
that's clearly written and also what the item is called.
so the last hurdle is left as an exercise for the reader...

of course you're invited to ask me questions without even the attempt to think.
In those cases I usually spice the sh*t I've written during this thread with some hands on experience and deal with it from breakfast to lunch - for a 300 bucks fee.

I know the network topics aren't exactly easy to understand for a beginner, that's why I offer some help.
But I'm getting the impression that all you're after is someone to fix your gaming problems - and then forget about it as soon as possible.

That's not called help - that's service - and that's what I usually charge for...

cheers, Tom

I appreciate your help very much Astroman and everyone else who has responded. I guess I do need to apply the grey matter. But, perhaps I am not the sharpest pencil in the box when it comes to these issues. However, the reason I have "pestered" you further is because I really didn't quite get what you were trying to say. It wasn't obvious to me and some of your terminology went over my head. But OK, I will try to figure it out.

Thanks again

On 2005-11-16 09:36, Atomic Marshmallow wrote:
...However, the reason I have "pestered" you further is because I really didn't quite get what you were trying to say. It wasn't obvious to me and some of your terminology went over my head. ...

it really doesn't upset me if you ask half a dozen or more questions - what matters is that they reflect you're making something of the parts of the puzzle, that you (try to) start solving it with increasing information you receive.
Maybe you just expect too much and mentally give up far too early, because you do not immediately understand one or the other tech item.
It is absolutely natural that you cannot do this in a couple of days.
But you can apply common sense and you can analyze the logical structure (even without knowing in depth how a program deals with data packets) of the situation.
A sheet of paper and a pencil works wonders in this context.

From the distance I cannot decide if it's pure lazyness or surrender because you can't apply the proper (mental) tools.

I'm really used to ignorance in this context, as mentioned I make a part of my living from exactly that attitude

The facts you got from stardust and me are a good roadmap to improve your knowledge about online security. The next 'Sober' worm is already on the run, btw...

As already mentioned the value of the MTU (maximum transmission unit=size of a data packet) is probably set too high, as routers are usually fed by high speed lines.
These lines are digital and much more reliable than the analog lines of a modem.

If you transmit a block of 100 bytes your chance that it is transmitted errorfree is 10 times higher (statistically) than for a block of 1000 bytes.
One usually doesn't have to bother with this value as most routers are ethernet/dsl based and the 'large' value is ok.
But not with a modem, which is completely unusual as a network datasource today. Most modems are connected directly and in this case the operating systems default values FOR MODEMS apply (and are set automatically)

I do not even remember the exact numeric value, but I guess it's between 1000 and 5000 for ethernet, while a moden uses 256 to 512.

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-11-16 11:42 ]</font>