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Excuse me but this is not the Apple way. The Apple way is to bundle the OS only with it's expensive computers (for quality control or so they say). Apparently they didn't want to hurt their computer sales but this has been horrible mistake for business. I predict that with the advent of the Mactel computers, Apple will at long last realize their stupid mistake and begin to sell their OS to PC users and it's good thing. I hope they can catch up to Microsoft but if they once again prove to be idiots in their hideous stubborn way, the OS will be hacked for the PC and released over p2p networks.

On 2005-08-04 03:06, astroman wrote:
once again M$ is going the Apple way, a few years late (as usual) and probably making a few billions more out of this - once again as usual ...
anyone noticed their ads lately ?

my full respect to Mr. BG 3rd as a businessman, but a company where this dude is titled chief software architect will never achieve anything but 2nd class in technology and innovation - except their balance of course...

cheers, tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2005-08-06 11:43 ]</font>

What amazed me when Windows ME was released was how easy it was for MS to make huge amounts of money for practicaly few updates to the Windows 98 OS. And now, I'm afraid, this is going to happen again.

I mean, come on, with all that cash, can't they afford to hire the brightest in computer science, research way to improve the speed and stability of the OS?
It's a shame we are stuck with MS now!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BingoTheClowno on 2005-08-06 12:16 ]</font>

It's true, it's really staggering how badly developed their products are considering the amount of money they have. The way I see it by the time Vista is stable and there are stable drivers for enough hardware for it, the Intel-based Macs will be here..

I remember this quote from a German IT mag where a scientist commented on M$'s latest expense of $150 mill for a TV campaign introducing WIN-I-dunnowhat...
... given that bugdet I know (competent) companies who'd deliver 2 complete OSes for that price...

cheers, Tom

I think the problem is too much attention to coke and not enough attention to code...

On 2005-08-06 11:42, braincell wrote:
Excuse me but this is not the Apple way. The Apple way is to bundle the OS only with it's expensive computers (for quality control or so they say). ...

sorry Braincell, but it's not 1995 anymore...
and even back then your argument would have been simply nonsense.

We aquired a bunch of Powermacs around that time, which had a 30% higher price than their PC counterparts.
We used those machines (at least) 3 times longer than the machines in the department with an Intel solution.
We had no costs in training and education, we never had any virus in the net, etc etc.

In fact I hardly dare to confess that we operate Powermacs that are written off the balance since 3 years - in other words: the deapartment runs a bunch of Macs for free for 3 years now
now come on with your cheapo bs - the magic word in economy is total cost of ownership and Apple won this contest since people are aware of it

I recently bought a VIA all in one for 480 Euro without any software - a MacMini comes with a better OS and a great software bundle for the same price. And it looks better...
an Apple notebook starts at 998 Euro, for 1400 you get a pretty well equipped one - and they don't make any noise.

But that wasn't the point:
M$'s lastest TV ads are completely Apple lookalikes - I really was surprised to find the M$ blurb at the end of the spot (when I saw it the first time).
Apple made half a billion Euro with their music download system - they are after the video market, too.

And in what company is the industry supposed to trust to implement this ?
Who'll be the first with DRM hardware for us regular folks for the hot new content - hires etc ?

the thing you assume to be copied to wherever will simply refuse it's attractive services without that little piece of hardware at it's cold digital heart

cheers, tom

From what I've heard, the mini is a dog and of course it looks good because that is the main concern of Apple lately. Apple computers are designed primarily for girls. The iTunes store is also for girls and teenagers. Who else would buy music by the song?

On 2005-08-06 13:10, astroman wrote:


I recently bought a VIA all in one for 480 Euro without any software - a MacMini comes with a better OS and a great software bundle for the same price. And it looks better...

cheers, tom

On 2005-08-06 15:15, braincell wrote:
Apple computers are designed primarily for girls.

Yes, and I guess PCs are designed for accountants...

On 2005-08-06 15:15, braincell wrote:
From what I've heard, the mini is a dog ...

a pretty sharp one, if you ask me

honestly, you (could) know that I kind of dissed the Mini too when it was first released - and the advice to check against an iMac G5 still applies for those who want to aquire a complete system.

The OS version supplied has changed in the meantime to 10.4 (Tiger), which has (among other goodies you know where to check) an improved text renderer, giving it a much better response.

The Safari web browser definetely is the fastest one on earth.
Mail is not as vulnerable as Outlook
there's an Office app and the iLife software (music, photo, video etc.) included.
Even Keyboards didn't consider GarageBand a toy
In any case the OS/softwarebundle represents a significant value.

For those who's job is related to business presentations:
Keynote II is an argument alone to get this box. Once you had a close look at this, whenever you'll see Powerpoint again there will be this urge to vomit.

The Mini is not a high end DAW and has never been intended as such.
But it does brilliantly what it's supposed to do - and is a complete no-brainer for the technically unadvanced

cheers, Tom

RAM really helps a lot with it. If you buy a cheap PC from some consumer retailer with XP and 256mb of RAM, it would perform like crap too

good point, Dark - I should have mentioned that Apple supplies them with 512 MB plus 54 MBit WLan now for the same price

How do you like the Shuffle?

Sidestep the shuffle momentarily........

If the Linux lads get the time and resources to get Creamware running sweetly, I won't ever care what MS$$$ do.

I've got Ubuntu (Free Linux Apps) for all my other stuff.

_________________
Keep swimming.....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: emzee on 2005-08-06 22:05 ]</font>

XP was a big step up from 98. As an OS I like it. It's stable for me and does what I need. If Vista is an equally big step up then great.

But if Microsoft is so hopeless / incomptent / wasteful / stupid as so many people here seem to feel then I'll also be looking forward to a range of daazling and superior alternates

On 2005-08-06 18:35, braincell wrote:
How do you like the Shuffle?

well, it's not a Shuttle exactly - it's a VIA EPIA 10k with all-onboard, 1 GB memory, 1GB solid state boot disk and another 1 GB USB flash mem.
The case is a 5.25" external drive bay, so it's as portable as a notebook.

I have it for programming and presentation (of developement changes) mainly, it runs Win2k server, a database and my Prolog developement system.
The OS is 'lightened' down to 500 MB, so I can get along with no moving parts.

But since the standard cooler (which s*cks) doesn't allow to run the 1GHZ version of the CPU fanless, it's currently spoiled a bit.
The fan is almost unnoticable, but I'll replace it with a proper cooler/heatpipe.

The board features an mpeg decoder, video/TV io and a really great audio codec by VIA.
Honestly I hadn't expected that quality from an onboard device.
The setup is/was a bit messy, but possibly that would be better under XP. For example it still doesn't remember it's screen setup

I've only tried DevineMachine as an audio app and it stuttered like hell. To be fair, this could also be related to the non-Asio driver of the onboard audio.
At least if that setup had performed as intended I'd seriously considered such a box for DM alone as a 'live' tool. I still have an unused 15" touch screen around, which could even house the complete VIA thingy...
I'll probably install a Pulsar in it's single slot just for curiosity.

At least for 150 Euro (mobo w CPU) it's a great home performer (mpg,dvd,mp3 etc), but
- add memory, psu, case, harddisk, CDRW/DVD (slimline !) to compare it's price to the Mac Mini
- plus time to mount parts and set it up
- still with no piece of user software at all...

The Mini is ready to go from the shop, enter your email and internet connection and off you go
not that I want to promote it too much, but this is a very tough strategy by Apple.

Even you have to admit that you cannot build an equivalent box cheaper than Apple sells a Mini.
If the brand s*cks in your eyes I have no problem with that (myself I don't buy a couple of Behringer 'Truth' monitors for that reason...), but I see few rational arguments

back to your original question, I'll check the VIA with a different audio app/driver combi and of course the Pulsar, though I don't have high hopes for the latter one

cheers, Tom

On 2005-08-06 23:26, Spirit wrote:
But if Microsoft is so hopeless / incomptent / wasteful / stupid as so many people here seem to feel then I'll also be looking forward to a range of daazling and superior alternates

ehhh...

On 2005-08-09 20:37, hubird wrote:

On 2005-08-06 23:26, Spirit wrote:
But if Microsoft is so hopeless / incomptent / wasteful / stupid as so many people here seem to feel then I'll also be looking forward to a range of daazling and superior alternates

ehhh...

History takes a long time. Get yourself cryogenically frozen and wake up 20 years in the future. There'll be no more Microsoft, and Betamax will be the way to go.

On 2005-08-04 03:06, astroman wrote:
once again M$ is going the Apple way, a few years late (as usual)

What do you mean M$ is going the Apple Way?

Apple's OS came from unix, and lately it has been trying to get back to it's "roots" (pun intended)

Windoze seems to be ripping off unix as well esp. since the XP line.

---

Unix runs on both MAC, PC, and well everything on the planet including wrist watches, PlayStations, to space shuttles...

Unix is over 30 years old... very stable, very mature... I can't wait for Creamware to have POSIX drivers, I hate running fad Operating systems.

http://www.winehq.org makes windoze games, wavelab, nuendo, etc available to unix as well with no performance loss, or major hastle in setup.

...I wish the world would wisen up and see that Unix is the obvious solution to all technology...

On 2005-08-20 18:51, phyx wrote:
...
What do you mean M$ is going the Apple Way?

Apple's OS came from unix, and lately it has been trying to get back to it's "roots" (pun intended)...

I mean look and feel of the software, marketing, and target groups - same as it ever was...

unix ??? it's as vulnerable as any piece of sh*t - I've successfully core-dumped SGIs with something as simple as a text conversion utility and I've seen SUNs eating their storage in a way that a 5-figure expense in data recovery was due...

but I honestly have NEVER seeen such a nice enclosure for such a complex thing as Apple delivers with their latest OS version (10.4).

why isn't the Linux community capable of doing it that way ?
Ok, it took Apple almost 5 years, but the folks you quote had (at least) 25 more...

in fact, I'd appreciate a Linux port, but only to put the card in an embedded system that boots SFP like a hardware rack.
there is a slight chance that exactly that will happen (fit CWA's strategy), but it could as well be just the opposite.

cheers, Tom