PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Non-electronic post office.

snoopy, think of it this way,

sending it via regular mail ( Post Office)
may cost less than faxing it.

from the USA it may cost about $2 bucks but faxing 4 pages may cost at least 4 minutes of long distance.

OK.. ..
Thanks a lot for the info.

Regular mail it will be.

The SDK is available for all owners of a Scope board (14 / 15)

No hope to get it if you own 15 sharks on three boards??
A shame, I hope this would be possible. I started my relationship with CW in 2000 with an Elaktra, then, because my incomes went up, I coudl afford a Pulssar II, and a year ago, a second one. No one coudl argue that I am not definitly "link" to CW.

eric

the licensing of the SDK is not a reward or kind of 'thank you for your patience', but a sales trigger for 15 DSP boards.

No more - no less - that company in question urgently needs cash to survive.
Business is tough today, just look around who's been aquired recently, or got broke.

Nevertheless the SDK is a piece of software you rarely get your hands on (usually).
I've repeated this numerous times - it's not a 'make your own VSI' kind of lib, but an application that enables you to deal with Analog Devices' DSP macros WITHOUT coding C or C++.
Have a look on the Analog pages about the price for Visual DSP, but be shure to have a firm seat before you do so...
Visual DSP is a full level lower than the Scope SDK, which means that coding of the same function can easily take 100 times longer than with CWA's kit.

If you're really interested in that stuff you might accept a small annoyance (sell the old boards and get a new one) to get your hands on that software for (almost) free - it's still a kind of priviledge.

cheers, Tom (my subjective 2 cents)

Where can we get the full SDK or whom do we need to contact? Why there is no additional information on the webpage?

Bingo,

Wolf Roth the managing director at CreamWare Germany is the one to talk to regarding SDK,

his email is posted in my very first post.

This may seem like a dumb question, but what is SDK? Is it a new operating system? Is it an update? Please explain since I have a 14/15 DSP card (actually two of them)which qualifies me for whatever this is.

Software Developement Kit.

allows you to make new devices @ not for profit. if you can make something great though........

... and while the label 'SDK' usually refers to a collection of program modules that are used to build something (more or less) useful with a programming language like C, C++ or Java, the SDK for Scope is an entirely graphical application.

It resembles the interface of the Modular synth (or the routing window) and allows you 'write' program code by just interconnecting boxes on the screen.
You don't need any knowledge about programming languages at all

cheers, Tom

is theis the same software that people who paid a lot of money for a scope DP licence might get eventually if creamware likes or even remembers you, and can be bothered?

or is it that if you make free plugins you get new free scope SDK program but the ones who paid still get old version and no support.

On 2004-09-17 22:14, astroman wrote:
... and while the label 'SDK' usually refers to a collection of program modules that are used to build something (more or less) useful with a programming language like C, C++ or Java, the SDK for Scope is an entirely graphical application.

It resembles the interface of the Modular synth (or the routing window) and allows you 'write' program code by just interconnecting boxes on the screen.
You don't need any knowledge about programming languages at all

cheers, Tom

well if it is anything like the old scope DP program, there is a lot more to it than that unless you are making something really simple.

This SDK stuff is just a way to re-sign all the developpers and appropriate their work.

The old license was letting them to develop commercial softwares, now, Creamware want everyone to give them their work for FREE and later they can bundle them or even sale them and make money on your neck.

This license is illegal in most countries (maybe except in Germany) where author rights are much more important and are strongly protected against such kind of practices.

You can't give something you have created to someone who will make any business with it for FREE. He has to give your credit, and some kind of royaties!

That means that in most countries, whatever the contract you sign, you are still the author of any work you make.

With this agreement, you give your author rights to Creamware.

This is something shocking! And a fascist way to see the business.

Don't sign this stuff, if you create something new, Creamware will claim it is their stuff and you'll have no rights on it!

Also if you are a past developper, this contract force you to abandon your rights on your previous devices you made and you'll have no more rights to sell anything else in the future!

On 2004-09-18 02:13, Neutron wrote:

...
You don't need any knowledge about programming languages at all

cheers, Tom

well if it is anything like the old scope DP program, there is a lot more to it than that unless you are making something really simple.

I was referring to the 'programming language' part only - you don't need knowledge about a compliler, OS interfaces, memory handling, data structures, pointers, handles and all that weird stuff which is normally required to build a 'plugin'.

Since this IS the old DP (with some restrictions) you certainly know more about it than me, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-09-18 06:31 ]</font>

On 2004-09-18 05:48, Nikko wrote:
This SDK stuff is just a way to re-sign all the developpers and appropriate their work.
...

imho this licence doesn't touch existing 'commercial' systems, but is a special arrangement for 'hobbyists' (unless you have mail by CWA that I'm unaware of).

I agree that the respective paragraph made me frowm when reading - possibly it is intended to make it even more clear than the title of the paper itself already says - and I'm suspecting quite some 'maybe commercial later...' entry candidates, though

The legal aspect of derivative work and how far this agreement finally reaches could become interesting - at least it will not be like sueing M$ or Apple...

cheers, Tom

The 'full' Scope DP (non-free) is in beta atm (I believe) and so I would assume there are updates coming for full developers.

Also as mentioned in the above post I don't believe this SDK negates current developers, but rather opens up a second tier of people who wish to have access to the tools but not market their creations commercially.

This license is illegal in most countries (maybe except in Germany) where author rights are much more important and are strongly protected against such kind of practices.

Why?

If I own the copyright to something and then I give permission to a company to distribute that something without giving me remuneration, that sounds perfectly legal to me. I'm not a copyright law expert, though, so maybe I'm missing something.

In any case universities and employers make people sign these contracts all the time. So it's not exactly unusual.

Personally I have no problem giving CreamWare access to whatever silly little plugins I may decide to distribute. I have distributed all kinds of other freebies myself on the web, under BSD and GPL licenses. People are allowed to make money off them if they want. But nobody in their right mind would even try because everything I've distributed is crap.

If I were interested in making money I would buy DP, and possibly bitch about lack of support. But I certainly wouldn't bitch about all the po dunk device developers (like me) being given a cookie with a hook. I just don't see how that relates in any way to the owners of the DP system.

Johann

tempest in a teapot.

it was also my understanding that there is a dp coming with new atoms. the sdk is for as astroman said, hobbyists. if someone found themselves skillfull, surely they would move to dp.

the sdk devices must be free as there is no way to lock them(no copy protection).

when someone makes a world class plugin with the sdk and it isn't already circulating EVERYWHERE and cw steals the idea and then sells it as is and gives the developer nothing while making thousands, then we'll see a real bad situation.....

of course, that hasn't happened. it's not likely to happen, and if it did, bad as it'd be, it's not likely to be important to the rest of the world.

if you want to play with design, this is a nice opportunity. if you want to buy dp, speak to cwa directly. i wouldn't expect them to do everything as fast as we'd like, there just aren't enough of them. obviously, they're doing some things right as we're here so it's not all bad. in fact it's pretty good. nothing could be better for the platform than a little extra thought and energy. so what if cw gets some good ideas from the free devices? isn't that good for everyone? no one is making anyone get this thing.

cheer up!

On 2004-09-19 00:23, garyb wrote:

when someone makes a world class plugin with the sdk and it isn't already circulating EVERYWHERE and cw steals the idea and then sells it as is and gives the developer nothing while making thousands, then we'll see a real bad situation.....

I'd actually love to see that happen. I wouldn't mind giving any plugins I might write away if it give CreamWare thousands of dollars/pounds/Euros, because then they'll stay in business and that benefits me.

Well I'm signing up. I will use this to make some tools for myself to use in my projects which is all I'm really interested in.