Solaris v5_0 - blue screen of death

[MimozeM]

Hello

I tried to find here a solution for BSOD when loading Solaris v5_0 plug-in but unfortunately without success for now.

1. after installation ( copying files to C:\Program Files\SCOPE PCI ) I get " Can't find DSP file JBCtrlSh VxD - Please check installation" message.
2. after I added zarg_64bit files to C:\Program Files\SCOPE PCI\App\Sys and trying to load Solarisv5_0 plug-in I get BSOD with :

Page_Fault_In_Nonpaged_Area, what failed : JBCtrlSh64.sys
Driver_irql_not_less_or_equal error, what failed : JBCtrlSh64.sys

I am using Sonic Core SCOPE v7.0.1706 software with 3x(45 DSP) PCI cards on 64bit Windows10 - 22H2 system.
Hope this can be avoided with some help.
It's a shame that 299Eur plug-in doesn't work as it should.

Please if there is some workaround for this please let me know.
Thank you

[garyb]

the sample OSCs in Solaris do not work in 64bit windows. Solaris is a very old plugin.
remove the thing1 and thing2(and any others) from the sample folder. i suspect Solaris is trying to load one of the presets that use the sample OSCs.

[MimozeM]

the sample OSCs in Solaris do not work in 64bit windows. Solaris is a very old plugin.
remove the thing1 and thing2(and any others) from the sample folder. i suspect Solaris is trying to load one of the presets that use the sample OSCs.

Unfortunately, I already have removed all samples from that folder, but this BSOD's happened when loading plug-in into a (new) routing window.

As some "ancient" posts on similar subject with this plug-in says that " Can't find DSP file JBCtrlSh VxD - Please check installation"
message can be ignored, but doesn't it affect some plug-in functions perhaps ?

Anyway after adding zarg64bit files to Sys folder and trying to load that plug-in I have BSOD.

[valis]

Are you on 64bit Scope? Also pay attention to the file date(s), Scope7 has newer versions of some files.

[MimozeM]

Are you on 64bit Scope? Also pay attention to the file date(s), Scope7 has newer versions of some files.

I am using Sonic Core SCOPE v7.0.1706 64bit software for PCI boards downloaded this year from their web site.
That file has been modified 21 oct, 2021.

But if you meant a difference between Solaris vs Scope7 files you are right.
There is one newer in Scope7 Dsp folder : Attenuator.dsp
And one "older" ( but only 1hour difference between the one inside Solaris and other in Scope7) : LQXVWS2.dsp

[Casper]

"the sample OSCs in Solaris do not work in 64bit windows."

Thus, Solaris does not work (practically) period. Just as the samplers, and anything (still) using 32 code in a 64 bit architecture Gary.
And that is not the fault of the Solaris Developer btw... who also can't fix this, because of drivers.

[valis]

The Solaris works fine, some of his other modules from what red dwarf are included in many presets, and those do not work; same presets that use the sample OSC from creamware.

Otherwise, all versions of the Solaris are working fine here on both my PCI cards and the Xite.

[Bud Weiser]

"the sample OSCs in Solaris do not work in 64bit windows."

Thus, Solaris does not work (practically) period. Just as the samplers, and anything (still) using 32 code in a 64 bit architecture Gary.
And that is not the fault of the Solaris Developer btw... who also can't fix this, because of drivers.

You´ll have to live with, John Bowen and others, developing SCOPE plugins in the past, won´t fix these at all,- drivers or not.
As an example, John Bowen never owned a XITE unit for development and it´s well known the hardware Solaris synth, now available in rev2, is his "new" baby.
Solaris for SCOPE was the basis for the hardware synth and when you want a up to date Solaris, you´ll heve to buy the John Bowen Synth Design hardware keyboard/desktop device.
ZARG is legacy.

And,- the (SCOPE) "drivers" are only critical when using ASIO and WAVE devices.
Development of SCOPE devices works w/o using these and in SCOPE standalone mode using SDK instead.

So, the ZARG devices are usable as long as you avoid using their sample oscillators.
The presets are old too and created w/ 32Bit SCOPE,- so when using 64Bit Scope,- make your own presets.
These are synths, made for programming,- and not only preset-players.

Solaris and other Zarg devices run in 32 and 64Bit SCOPE PCI and XITE,- I´m using both systems..
VxD files became obsolete long time ago and carefully compare release dates of other .sys files.
Don´t overwrite younger SCOPE files w/ older ZARG files.
The main issue w/ ZARG devices was and is polyphony ´cause these devices are very DSP cycle demanding which is synth architecture- and patch- complexity related.
These devices might come up w/ long load- and unload times in combination w/ audible artefacts when changing patches and some patches might work only monophonic or w/ 3 voice polyphony,- depending on DSP chip count and host computer configuration.
It´s a SAT connection thing,- the big Zarg devices want a lot of "communication lanes" across DSP chips and to/from host computer´s RAM.
It´s the price for that kind of modularity these devices offer (and bring SCOPE DSP to it´s limits).

The smaller "Sonic Core optimized" ZARG devices work better that the others.
You recognize reading "SC" in their name.

And,- "try before you buy" ...
You can always request a demo key for every device available from S|C shop.



Bud

[MimozeM]

The Solaris works fine, some of his other modules from what red dwarf are included in many presets, and those do not work; same presets that use the sample OSC from creamware.

Otherwise, all versions of the Solaris are working fine here on both my PCI cards and the Xite.

Good to know.
I did a clean installation of Scope7 software and Solaris v5_0 ( not replacing Attenuator.dsp file - Scope7 has a newer one )
Not adding Zarg64bit files - Still have a message Can't find DSP file JBCtrlSh Vxd - which is present in C:\Program Files\SCOPE PCI\App\Vxd
But this can be ignored and what's good - plug-in loaded without BSOD and it's working.

[MimozeM]

"the sample OSCs in Solaris do not work in 64bit windows."

Thus, Solaris does not work (practically) period. Just as the samplers, and anything (still) using 32 code in a 64 bit architecture Gary.
And that is not the fault of the Solaris Developer btw... who also can't fix this, because of drivers.

You´ll have to live with, John Bowen and others, developing SCOPE plugins in the past, won´t fix these at all,- drivers or not.
As an example, John Bowen never owned a XITE unit for development and it´s well known the hardware Solaris synth, now available in rev2, is his "new" baby.
Solaris for SCOPE was the basis for the hardware synth and when you want a up to date Solaris, you´ll heve to buy the John Bowen Synth Design hardware keyboard/desktop device.
ZARG is legacy.

And,- the (SCOPE) "drivers" are only critical when using ASIO and WAVE devices.
Development of SCOPE devices works w/o using these and in SCOPE standalone mode using SDK instead.

So, the ZARG devices are usable as long as you avoid using their sample oscillators.
The presets are old too and created w/ 32Bit SCOPE,- so when using 64Bit Scope,- make your own presets.
These are synths, made for programming,- and not only preset-players.

Solaris and other Zarg devices run in 32 and 64Bit SCOPE PCI and XITE,- I´m using both systems..
VxD files became obsolete long time ago and carefully compare release dates of other .sys files.
Don´t overwrite younger SCOPE files w/ older ZARG files.
The main issue w/ ZARG devices was and is polyphony ´cause these devices are very DSP cycle demanding which is synth architecture- and patch- complexity related.
These devices might come up w/ long load- and unload times in combination w/ audible artefacts when changing patches and some patches might work only monophonic or w/ 3 voice polyphony,- depending on DSP chip count and host computer configuration.
It´s a SAT connection thing,- the big Zarg devices want a lot of "communication lanes" across DSP chips and to/from host computer´s RAM.
It´s the price for that kind of modularity these devices offer (and bring SCOPE DSP to it´s limits).

The smaller "Sonic Core optimized" ZARG devices work better that the others.
You recognize reading "SC" in their name.

And,- "try before you buy" ...
You can always request a demo key for every device available from S|C shop.



Bud

Thank you for a complex answer !

[LunaMan]

You can try Solaris Core - a less demanding version.

[Casper]

I'm sorry Garry,

I'm just triggered each time you try to shift the cause to other things about this stupid 64x problem.
I guess I'm tired of waiting for my once perfect working power pulsar experience. Back in the day when, uhh whenever that was,
and the pull towards a more powerfull dsp beast aka the Xite-1, which sounded very x-ited then, has been a not so good experience.

But still, let me make those critical points. Not to dissrespect but to point in the right direction.

Must haves
- Ofcourse 64bit drivers.
- 0% non user dsp management. The user should not even have to bother about placement etc.
- Better dll distributions of plugins. Too often come those questions about missing dll's
- Properly synced waveoutputs.

Nice to have
- SDK documentation per atom, the SDK itself. Examples.
- Really open source the atom so we can write our own dll's for use in the SDK. THAT is open source Scope SDK.
- Surround encoding/decoding
- Spectral FFT plugins that can do more that just analyse
- Far better midi SDK atoms that those that exist now. (And without any docs)

Don't do's
- Please don't focus on the looks of Scope when there are so many more important issues above. (Or at least that was my last update experience. Just some graphical changes, but almost no bug fixes, and a little improvement on dsp management.

Say hi to Holger for me.

Cheers

[Bud Weiser]

You can dream !

Every user has different demands.

Problem or advantage ?
Scope, as a standalone system, works very well in 32Bit.
It ALSO works in 64Bit, but not every device coming from the past, especially not 3rd party from the past or when former coders of ancient devices leaved the boat already @Creamware times and their devices were locked.

As an example:
How many payed applications and plugins were lost for loyal customers when Native Instruments (and others) decided for discontinuation of soft- and hardware devices by development and marketing reasons ?
And these politics continue ...

YOU´re able to use ancient and already discontinued Creamware hardware along w/ S|C hardware in harmony still,- which is a rare case in the industry.
I´m happy I can !

In fact, what you IDEALLY want is all the old system upgraded for the modern world running as "realtime" SCOPE (standalone) and as a fully fledged audio card w/ (ideally multiclient) 64Bit ASIO driver,- p.ex. like and on par with RME,- AND using the old hardware and (ideally) almost every device created for SCOPE ever.

This will NEVER happen, period.
When big companies w/ hundreds of employees aren´t able to realize such project, a small company like Sonic Core is unable too.
All the big companies like NI, Steinberg, Waves and whoelse discontinue hard- and software anytime just only to move on and because of profit- and marketing reasons.
It costs insane money for the average user following time limited software update/upgrade plans and/or move to subscription as also buying new hardware all the time.

One of the reasons why S|C lacks funds and manpower is,- they don´t behave like these companies.
Instead there´s lots of idealism and contrariarism,- the latter in the sense of "realtime" operation.

Up to now, SCOPE hardware cannot operate like typical Windows soundcards.
When it does, the "realtime" idealism is lost.

I´m sure we´ll see new S|C hardware and new software one day and as it was announced some time ago, but it possibly won´t run old SCOPE as it was anymore then.

As much as I want the announced new driver myself and my "must have" is "total recall on device level incl. proper memorized MIDI CC assignment",- I´m still an idealist too and use SCOPE as it is on ancient PCI cards and XITE-1 w/ the luxury of running separate machines for.
And because SCOPE itself is humble on CPU and doesn´t require latest/greatest OS,- it´s cost effective still since I´m able to use my older machines running Win XP and/or Win7 for SCOPE, as also can choose Win10 or 11 when I want to,- the latter currently for the price not everything will work perfectly.
And even when there will be the new driver released, it won´t fix everything and even w/ an all new SCOPE,- if that will ever exist,- be prepared not every of your ancient Creamware SCOPE devices will run perfect or at all.

You simply cannot blame 3rd party developers left the platform or gave up by private reasons, age, illness or whatever destiny, or made the decision to go "native only" or for founding their own hardware company like John Bowen (ZARG).

When you don´t see any use of SCOPE or no future for, you´re always free selling your cards and keys for cheap, even your XITE-1 or -1D and to a idealistic user who´s looking for an affordable SCOPE system,- and move elsewhere.

I don´t use SCOPE as the one-and-only "the DAW" recording system and have RME RayDat in a Win7 x64 rackmount PC as also a RME Hammerfall 9652 in a Win XP 32Bit rackmount PC which I both also don´t upgrade to Win10 or 11 ...
Win10 and 11 is for my,- also ancient already,- laptops.

SCOPE systems are different "tool box" systems for me I connect via MIDI and ADAT.

When I wanted just only a compact and fast DAW system running almost everything natively,- I´d take the money and buy a powerfull Apple M processor computer running Logic and/or Studio One Pro together w/ some 3rd party plugins,- and that´s it then.
But I don´t.




Bud

[valis]

How long ago was the power pulsar purchased?

I am amazed and thankful that my scope system has been with me for almost a quarter of a century.

[Liquid EDGE]

Since upgrading to 64bit this is what I’ve found!

After installing all the necessary 64 bit additionals for plug ins I have..
das masterit eq, C350, Mattomat, convolveq & Solaris would crash the system!

Long story short.

Use the masterit eq light and C350L, reinstall the 64bit additional files for your other plug ins (in my case John Bowen, gost & convolveq ones) and all seems to be working fine. For some reason the crashing of C350 & Masteriteq also messes with other devices that need 64bit specific files.
Pointed out by Dante, basically, the file Das Coeff11.sys that would get C350, Masteriteq & legend working in 64bit only works up to windows 7…

So all in all, all good, the only thing lost from transitioning to 64bit was sts and vdat!

(From my how to avoid annoying stuff post/thread in the Xite forum.)

[Bud Weiser]

Since upgrading to 64bit this is what I’ve found!

After installing all the necessary 64 bit additionals for plug ins I have...
... Solaris would crash the system!
...

So all in all, all good, the only thing lost from transitioning to 64bit was sts and vdat!

I got Solaris v5 working in 64Bit, but not much polyphony, as always,- and it seems this is and was always more or less design flaw causing SAT connection (ASync) errors while there was still more than enough DSP headroom left.
IMO,- the big ZARGs are simply too demanding for the SCOPE system.

The other 64Bit related issue is the same like w/ other devices using samples,- and when loading a preset which does,- they crash.
But that also happens w/ FleXor (III) p.ex..
The main problem is sorting all these presets out before accidently loading one of these.
Even the flawlessly running Zarg Ambient SC uses samples in some presets, and when you don´t know which, it crashes already in Win7 Pro SP1 64Bit.

I got more problems w/ Zarg RD Drum which is unusable on my Win7 x64 system as also there were issues w/ these ZARG synths loading RD modules and/or other Scope modules.
All kind of horrible audible artefacts when changing patches and sloooooooow load times.
This is independend from PCI or XITE.

Fortunately stock SCOPE offers so many fully working devices and modules, I always get some gain for what I do.
The big ZARGs are great sound design tools for sure,- but as a keyboard player, I don´t need ´em much, avoid,- and use what works best.



Bud

[Liquid EDGE]

Read further. As I have Solaris working..

Reinstalled the 64 bit files for solaris (and use the lite versions of a couple das plug ins) and it works.

If I use Solaris I don’t use more than 1 or 2 voices. Maybe 3.

I hardly use Solaris on Xite as it doesn’t fully work.

[Bud Weiser]

Read further. As I have Solaris working..

Reinstalled the 64 bit files for solaris (and use the lite versions of a couple das plug ins) and it works.

My PCI system where I have Solaris and all the other ZARGs too, is 32Bit.

If I use Solaris I don’t use more than 1 or 2 voices. Maybe 3.

This is what drove me, as a player,- and not only producer/sounddesigner,- nuts always.

It´s a 27 DSP PCI system (2 Pulsar-2, 1 Power-Pulsar and sync plate,- all w/ Pro snakes in a HP XW4600 socket 775 server), SCOPE 7 x86.

I hardly use Solaris on Xite as it doesn’t fully work.

This is the main issue since XITE-1 is what I can use mobile w/ a Win10 x64 laptop.
But on the 32Bit PCI system, Solaris doesn´t run WAY better,- just only a little bit.

The Quantum Wave SE makes a difference vs the Quantum Wave on PCI though.

I wished we got a Solaris SE as well.



Bud