UAD going Native

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Sounddesigner
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UAD going Native

Post by Sounddesigner »

Subscription ofcourse. UA just released a handfull of their plugins for Subscription with ILOK option for those who own the DSP-card counter-part plugins. I'm sure all users will get ilok options as UA realise like Roland an PA that Subscription-only does'nt sell so well.

Subscriptions are generally dumb IMHO, but the industry is determined to get there.

I did give in to ILOK because the Juggernaught TC Electronics were the first to twist my arm brutally with their high-end offerings, and once i got it i baught from a couple other companies. I can't be sold on subscriptions cause my Studio is already perfectly built plus with Audio they'll always be non-subscription offerings IMO.

The only plugin i really like a lot on the UAD Platform is the Lexicon 480L, and tho i'm a sucker for reverbs i have plenty top-notch ones now and am not desperate. UA came too late.

Here's more info- https://gearspace.com/board/new-product ... rvice.html
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Re: UAD going Native

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Subscriptions make sense if you have a business model that supports it, and I applaud companies that offer direct sale and subscription models at the same time for their business acumen.

Dropping non-subscription sale options on the other hand is (imho) opting to not support the 'middle' in the production arena, home users and small business owners who (barring major musical income streams) are essentially directing discretionary income at such purchases, and don't want to feel tethered to a company monthly in lieu of other places to put their monthly budget.

That being said, they have enough high profile options I'm sure many home users will be lured in. I wonder what the marketing data looks like for subscription services like this, and how closely this aligns to the audience that typically buys their fare based on the reputation and where they enter the market.
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by dante »

This release by UA is extremely boring. I have no use for native plugs I already have in DSP, subscriptions or more native synths. Capitol Chambers canes their 480L imo. They give Relabs version away with their lame ass Volts I think :lol:
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Re: UAD going Native

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Given that they ported from a GPU based architecture to Analog Devices now to Native, we can conclude braincell would be happy to be correct some decades later about native catching up.

Now if only their software worked without facing the exact same limitations as Scope in terms of changing buffer size while ASIO software is running....
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by dante »

I’m thinking of a dual machine setup. Reason, XITE1-D and UAD octocore on the Wintel rig for tracking/arranging then stems over to an M1 Mac Studio + the Apollo x6 setup for mix/master on Luna w/- API Console.
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Re: UAD going Native

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Sounds good to me. I'm certainly interested in the Mac Studio. My primary machine atm is a 5950x outfitted with a gtx3090, the latter of which came to me via benefit of one check from last year at the right time. The machine took a year to collect parts for, but for what I have in mind makes a great graphical workstation to accompany the studio.

These paired with a controller should make a great content creation pair (studio) which will port directly to a pair of laptops, should that ever be needed. What a change from 10-11 years ago, as I can now even think along the lines of a skulltrail NUC12 box with a light GPU alongside an M1 Mac Mini for a road rig, attached to a set of stands with controllers and small monitors. The only real issue would be multiple outputs, but I think with enough of the content 'baked in' rather than realtime (when it comes to playback) that's probably the biggest issue in this era. Entering 2011 I still was thinking along the lines of multiple rackmounted road cases.

That, of course, assumes I tackle such a thing again.

For studio use, Mac Studio alongside another rig sounds great. Right now if I was building a new machine, I might even consider the 8 core chip from AMD with the extra cache (5800X3D) or the 5600G. Both would give audio core loading a bit of extra flex per thread, and the 550 based chipset for AMD seems to perform quite well if you pick the board from within the last year (or at least board revision) so you sidestep an initial chipset issue with the 550/570 boards and USB. Of course if you already have the wintel box...
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by at0m »

From experience on a Protools rig, I was most impressed to be able to manually swap out DSP and native plugins. Such load balancing is way convenient, I think: keep anything in the live chain on DSP for the realtime performance, and once tracked it's ok to have the processing on CPU.

Though I think for now that would be a PT-unique feature, who knows in time that feature spreads to other DAW once UAD runs both native and DSP.

That said, UAD is of zero interest to me.
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by dante »

at0m wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:37 am From experience on a Protools rig, I was most impressed to be able to manually swap out DSP and native plugins. Such load balancing is way convenient, I think: keep anything in the live chain on DSP for the realtime performance, and once tracked it's ok to have the processing on CPU.

Though I think for now that would be a PT-unique feature, who knows in time that feature spreads to other DAW once UAD runs both native and DSP.

That said, UAD is of zero interest to me.
The UAD API Vision Console emulation is hybrid. "The API Vision Console Emulation Bundle turns LUNA into a full API console. Track in real time through API preamp and channel modules, then mix with API's illustrious analog summing and bus compression — seamlessly switching between low-latency tracking using Apollo DSP, and high-powered native mixing within LUNA." Couple that with DSP plugins some of which are being released native, and there's plenty of load balancing potential.
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by dawman »

Good move for them.

New customers.

They need more offerings though.

I wish I could run ASIO through Omnisphere. Fantastic FX, my favorite for Native.
U he sucks but Scope fixes that.
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Re: UAD going Native

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dante wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:55 pm Capitol Chambers canes their 480L imo. They give Relabs version away with their lame ass Volts I think :lol:

The old-school reverbs chambers, plates, and springs reverbs are generally my favorites. There is more of a 'magic' to them over most modern verbs.Those first-generation mechanical reverbs and chambers sound majestic, mystical, and tell a story all of their own.

The UVI Plate truly is exquisit. It has a huge spacious sound that is VERY deep sounding. The name Plate is singular but it really has many plates and beyond. It is VERY versatile in that it has many plate types e.g. Steel, Gold, Silver, Aluminum, and Titanium. The tone and other characteristics greatly change from the different Quality Modes and if you increase the Tension enough each plate becomes a Spring. There is a lot of powerfull parameter-controls to shape the plates like you need and can even get huge super-massive spaces with it. It is Physical-Modeled and eats a lot of CPU but the huge deep spaces with lovely tones are must-have for me.

Audio demos-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1jvpfI5a_Q
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by Sounddesigner »

valis wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:25 pm Subscriptions make sense if you have a business model that supports it, and I applaud companies that offer direct sale and subscription models at the same time for their business acumen.

Dropping non-subscription sale options on the other hand is (imho) opting to not support the 'middle' in the production arena, home users and small business owners who (barring major musical income streams) are essentially directing discretionary income at such purchases, and don't want to feel tethered to a company monthly in lieu of other places to put their monthly budget.

That being said, they have enough high profile options I'm sure many home users will be lured in. I wonder what the marketing data looks like for subscription services like this, and how closely this aligns to the audience that typically buys their fare based on the reputation and where they enter the market.
Yes, offering both Subscription and Non--Subscription is a smart business move and if i had a business i'd do this. But many companies in the Audio world act as if they only want to offer Subscription-only. It seems Corporate world want us owning nothing in life and renting, subscribing, etc everything in our possesion. I prefer to own the tools of my Trade, The things you own are your personal-wealth and you are poorer without ownership.
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by valis »

Sounddesigner wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:07 pm Yes, offering both Subscription and Non--Subscription is a smart business move and if i had a business i'd do this. But many companies in the Audio world act as if they only want to offer Subscription-only. It seems Corporate world want us owning nothing in life and renting, subscribing, etc everything in our possesion. I prefer to own the tools of my Trade, The things you own are your personal-wealth and you are poorer without ownership.
Gary is quite fond of pointing this out as well, and I agree with you in terms of the value of personal wealth and property rights vs. corporate lease income streams completely. I own all my tools and the only subscriptions I use are tied directly to my income streams for my business, so I represent both sides of this discussion, to a point. I certainly have no desire to see the WEF goal of 'you will own nothing by 2030' be normalized via consumers 'playing at' being pros so that they never know the difference.

I also suspect that the the way this shakes out in a world that's vastly more complex than our mental models in terms of effects, will be those that avoid the rental model & mindset will still have options available and be better off.

One thing Gary has mentioned during our discussions is that there is something lost in the era we had with stores like Guitar Center being willing to carry products like Scope. While the internet really levels the playing field in terms of access to boutique and niche products (versus the buyer/seller relationships and catalogs that used to have to work in our favor before), it has removed some of the same experience from gear buying that it removed from the local record store. Meaning, a consumer who comes in for the latest PowerDAWToll 72 subscription at least has a chance of a chance to bump into other gear they're unaware of and experience it directly. Now we live in an era of wish-lists and app store ratings, and facebook groups are only waist-deep (if that) in terms of what they offer to the average gear peruser on there. Gearspace has softened a lot over the years, but Youtube and Audiobus forums have actually really picked up a lot of slack for at least offering exposure and coverage of interesting new tools.

At least UAD has a unique model that has stood the test of time. Like at0m, I don't really have a strong need for it though they do have a few models I might own someday if I have money to throw away.
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by dante »

valis wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:51 pm At least UAD has a unique model that has stood the test of time. Like at0m, I don't really have a strong need for it though they do have a few models I might own someday if I have money to throw away.
UA are good if you stick to their mainstream - e.g. Mac on Apollo (thunderbolt) line. But they also have a habit of dropping off support of other of their high end offerings. For example Live Rack isn't supported on the latest Mac O/S's - and their Ox Box has wifi issues and hasn't been updated last few years and no ongoing OS support for their firewire Apollos. And Luna release frequency is already starting to drop off after only a year or two.

I would be tempted by the Ox Box even with its issues if I had money to burn and no other purchase priorities (like Mac Studio & the Steve Smith OBx6), as the concept of reactive load fascinates me - it might just be enough to break me out of fake MIDI guitaring - if it competes well with the Shreddage + Diezel VH4 combo.
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by valis »

Right, real-time mixing is important to me but real-time tracking is less so. I should buy a guitar again, it’s been years since I was synths only…
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by at0m »

dante wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:01 am there's plenty of load balancing potential.
Have you ever worked with protools? I mean, for every plugin there, you can simply click a "move to DSP" or "move to native", that's literally all there is to it, and that's what impressed me. And of course, full presets compatibility between the native and DSP versions.
Not 'i will unload plugin X running on Y then load plugin X running on Z and figure out the settings again", or "let me remove VST plugin X and load Scope plugin Y".
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by Sounddesigner »

at0m wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:21 am
dante wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:01 am there's plenty of load balancing potential.
Have you ever worked with protools? I mean, for every plugin there, you can simply click a "move to DSP" or "move to native", that's literally all there is to it, and that's what impressed me. And of course, full presets compatibility between the native and DSP versions.
Not 'i will unload plugin X running on Y then load plugin X running on Z and figure out the settings again", or "let me remove VST plugin X and load Scope plugin Y".

Waves Soundgrid allows for this type of load-balancing as well. You can have many (64) StudioRack channelstrips in your DAW with each containing a chain of many Waves plugins and each channelstrip can be set to run on Native CPU or the Soundgrid server. Soundgrid is the most powerfull Co-Processor since Waves uses 10th generation intel i9 10-core processors running at 3.7GHZ.


I agree with you this is a VERY powerfull feature to have and allows you to leverage to the fullest both Native and dsp platforms. But still, when it comes to dsp+computer+DAW harmony Protools has always had the by far best integration. Each platforms definitly has its strenths, Waves has by far the most REALtime power but you have to like their Effects plugins (wich i do) and they are pretty pathetic on the instruments front, Avid Protools has the best and most seemless DAW integration with DSPs but you have to likr their DAW (a large chunk of the industry love it), SCOPE has Modular 4 and a wide range of beautifull synths wich others dont have plus SDK.

I've been actually considering Soundgrid to compliment my SCOPE rig :P :P , especially since it is customizable and allows me to use SCOPE still as my interface with SFP platform and the Soungrid in non-realtime mode as a co-processor only. When used in realtime mode you then need the Soungrid approved interfaces. I have several VERY hungry Waves plugins like Ovox Voice synthesizer.
Last edited by Sounddesigner on Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: UAD going Native

Post by dante »

at0m wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:21 am
dante wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:01 am there's plenty of load balancing potential.
Have you ever worked with protools? I mean, for every plugin there, you can simply click a "move to DSP" or "move to native"
Never used protools. But I’ve not really been short of DSP or CPU. And currently my workload of using one DAW for tracking/arrangement and another for mix/mastering means I have full power for both across those 2 activities anyway.
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