Scope 5.1, XITE-1, WinXP 32Bit

[Bud Weiser]

Hello !

Up and running ...
But Presonus Studio One Pro v2 fails scanning the SCOPE 5.1 plugin DLLs, showing red skull & crossed bones for each plugin.

Profit 5 doesn´t respond to MIDI Prg.-Changes (XITE MIDI In /Edirol PCR300 physical MIDI out)
MIDI monitor shows received MIDI data incl. Prg.-Changes.
Profit 5 manual doesn´t help and I´ve found no way to activate in Profit 5 GUI.
No MIDI error like MIDI channel mismatch or such,- it plays, but I can change programs w/ mouse only,- drives me nuts.

Minimax and B2003 respond to MIDI Prg.-Change commands without any extra tweaking.

Any comments on Presonus Studio One Pro v2 w/ SCOPE 5.1 and Profit 5 MIDI issues ?

thx in advance

Bud

[garyb]

i guess you know that the scan will only work with xtc mode enabled and Scope closed.
it's possible that the profit 5 doesn't respond to program changes...

i know of another Studio One/XITE user who really likes the Presonus program.

[Bud Weiser]

i guess you know that the scan will only work with xtc mode enabled and Scope closed.

Hmm,- weird,- because every host I start without XTC mode enabled, scans the public vstplugins folder anyway,- and that´s where the SCOPE 5.1 plugins are.
Reaper did it, Cantabile lite also scanned the folder at startup (even it is not a recording DAW app, just live VST rack).

So,- only Studio One Pro v2 came up w/ this issue.

Actually I´m not working in XTC mode at all,- so it´s all about the scanning process behaviour of different hosts and the results.
Is not possible to exclude these plugins from scanning only "if not in XTC MODE",- you know.
Once Studio One Pro v2 failed scanning these plugins,- they are on the blacklist !

it's possible that the profit 5 doesn't respond to program changes...

Oops,- bummer !
That makes it impossible to use in a keyboard live rig,- which is my intention too,- not only studio work.
I myself never had that P5 licence-key for my 15DSP card,- so I´m lost here actually because of lack of experience w/ this specific instrument.
OTOH,- as a former owner of 2 hardware Prophet 5,- to me, Profit 5 sounds absolutely great,- so I want it in my live rig !

Maybe someone who owns and uses it might chime in here ?

i know of another Studio One/XITE user who really likes the Presonus program.

Well, I like it both, S1Pv2 and SCOPE,- now it has to work together.
According to the VST plugins scan issues.- maybe it´s a path problem for PS1 but not the others ???
I have my vstplugins folder on drive E:\
I created a subfolder [Sonic Core] inside the VST plugins folder and then SCOPE 5.1 installer installed into that folder creating another subfolder [SCOPE XITE],- I think that´s how it should be.

OTOH,- I was surprised, reading in manual and watching the installer asking for 3 different VSTplugins folders (1 per host) inside the applications folders on drive C:\ ...

I never store/install any 3rd party plugins into any applications plugins folder,- just only into the public VST plugins folder.

Please confirm that´s correct also when working w/ SCOPE and Studio One Pro v2.

thx for reply

Bud

[garyb]

if you're not using XTC mode, this really doesn't matter. if the error message annoys you, delete the XTC plugins folder. the .dll files only refer to XTC mode. if the plugins are in the blacklist, so what? it doesn't matter. what happens in the routing window has absolutely nothing to do with the sequencer, except for the ASIO and sequencer midi modules.

as to the Profit 5 and program change, i can't promise anything, but if you send a letter to support, i'll forward it to the powers that be. i'm not sure how easy a fix it is or isn't.

[Bud Weiser]

if you're not using XTC mode, this really doesn't matter. if the error message annoys you, delete the XTC plugins folder. the .dll files only refer to XTC mode. if the plugins are in the blacklist, so what? it doesn't matter. what happens in the routing window has absolutely nothing to do with the sequencer, except for the ASIO and sequencer midi modules.

That´s correct,- but because I don´t use XTC mode NOW,- while investigating in XITE-1 possibilities and optimized DSP assignment of devices and such,- that doesn´t mean I won´t use XTC mode later.

More important to know is,- are the plugins in the right vstplugins folder, if it is located on drive E:\ (in my case), or -
would it probably be better to have ´em in a separate vstplugins (or plugins-) folder for each host I use,- not the public vstplugins folder ?

I´m asking because the installer offered 3 simultaneously usable optional locations for each potential host # 1, #2 and #3.

as to the Profit 5 and program change, i can't promise anything, but if you send a letter to support, i'll forward it to the powers that be. i'm not sure how easy a fix it is or isn't.

O.k. thx, I´ll try to contact support.
It could have been, it is a well known bug though,- isn´t it ?

best

Bud

[garyb]

well, i don't know how many users actually require patch change ability. of those who do, there aren't that many who might actually complain.

i'd put those .dlls into the vst plugins folder. most sequencers will disable the XTC plugins when the system is not using xtc mode. they're not available to the sequencer in Scoipe mode, so they look like dead plugins to the sequencer.

[Bud Weiser]

well, i don't know how many users actually require patch change ability. of those who do, there aren't that many who might actually complain.

i'd put those .dlls into the vst plugins folder. most sequencers will disable the XTC plugins when the system is not using xtc mode. they're not available to the sequencer in Scoipe mode, so they look like dead plugins to the sequencer.

O.k., thx for quick reply.

Bud

[dante]

Bud, you might want to read up on 'Project Preset List' or ask Jimmy this is something he uses to solve program change issues I believe.

[dawman]

Actually the Project Preset List changes not programs although it can, but changes the Screen of the project window.'
THink of it as a Scene change or snapshot, but it will see the preset changes of the inserts of the stm2448 and external effects in the project window, but I use it strictly for routing the signals into and out of the Project window.
XITE-1 MIDI In gets the 1# of a MIDI merger, the 2# get s the SEquencer MIDI In > to a MIDI FIlter, these two are merged to another MIDI Filter that is basically used for montoring the signals.
This only works on MIDI channel 1 but I control the routing of the MIDI filters which have no preset list, so its works well for routings and mergings to and for the Project window which responds to MIDI Prgm Chnge now that the Project Preset list is used.
Only works on channel one, but Alfonso has a cure for that called MIDI Channel Change if need be.
j9k router is to view every stream when its outputs are re rerouted.\
We have had blessing form many I miss likr him atom. michu, assaf. fra77x.shroomz shar. But it seems as though there ar many new trained professional with even newer ides to extend the life of the best fake shit ever made.
Mew

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[Bud Weiser]

Actually the Project Preset List changes not programs although it can, but changes the Screen of the project window.'
THink of it as a Scene change or snapshot,

All good, but to be more precise,- I don´t want to change project snapshots or sceenes w/ MIDI Prg.-Change Commands but simply want to change presets within Profit 5 preset banks.

When Profit 5 is loaded in a SCOPE 5.1 project window and being assigned to a dedecated DSP,- p.ex. DSP #8,- the 2448 mixer assigned to DSP #7,- if the factory bank of patches for Profit 5 is active, which is prepared for MIDI Prg.-Changes it´s patches numerized 0-127 and it receives MIDI Prg.-Change Commands,- it doesn´t switch patches.

Minimax and B2003 do,- so it´s a Profit 5 bug I think,- unless I have overseen something.
I don´t think I have,- because I used all the other instruments on PCI 15DSP card successfully that way w/ SCOPE v4 on a single core P4 machine,- so I assume MIDI Prg.-Change for Profit-5 is broken in Scope 5.1.

The exception in my case,- I never owned Profit-5 for Scope v4,- so I don´t have a comparison for Profit-5.
I just only see it doesn´t change patches over MIDI in SCOPE 5.1 !

I´d like to see someone confirming this for Win XP SP3 32Bit.
Project is 16Bit / 44.1K,- SCOPE 5.1 on XITE-1.

No other issues up to now,- only Profit-5 MIDI Prg Changes.

If it works for someone here,- I´d like to know how please.

And again,- no MIDI channel mismatch or any other MIDI routing error because I double checked w/ MIDI monitor, watching MIDI events arriving on correct MIDI channel incl. MIDI Prg.-Change numbers,- so, also no masterkeyboard error or such.

It´s all basic MIDI,- Program Changes work since MIDI spec 1.0 of early 80th and has to work with every instrument in SCOPE too.

thx

Bud

[dawman]

Ladies $ Gentlemen...................Bud.
FWIW Mine works, but I do this with all Creamware synths, since I never use Bank Changes except for exteranl analog synths that have a preset in ROM I cannot access w/o storing to Users presets which are full.
Then I need the MSB/LSB info from the controller.
But for my smooth way of changing presets, I steer clear of Bank changes, and use a " - " ( minus ) symbol so the Bank I want is first, then the MIDI info is second.
Even if you have no presets for MIDI, save anything in that spoace and it BCF 2000 or something you use as a controller.
I keep the preset mode as shown below so I dont have to have an entire 0-127 presets viewable as it takes too much space.
But if you are still having difficulty, punch in a preset form the lowest numbered Banks, then send a PrgmChng message of 000 or 001 and try to get it to catch on somehow.
Below is the wa I do it with 100% recall.
Also it is good to have a hardwares synth with LEDs with no volum onit, but the same channel as the profit 5.
Then you can watch it's numbers change there and in the MIDI Menu so you know the MIDI is functioning.
I am thinking the preset list requires a preset for the MIDI cc's even if there are no assignments, and everything must be autoindexed.

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[dante]

My plastic Evolution MK261 keboard has a '+' and a '-' program change buttons on it which incement and decrement the program change as follows - but like Bud this works on B2003 but not Profit 5 :

prog-change

prog-change.JPG (16.14 KiB) Viewed 4915 times

Jimmy any chance you can post what comes up in MIDI monitor when you sending your prog changes to Pro5 ? Probably do with the LSB / MSB stuff you've explained, but gives us something to go on.

[Bud Weiser]

Ladies $ Gentlemen...................Bud.
FWIW Mine works, ...

Ankyu Jimmy !!!
Awesome !

It was in deed the numbering of the preset banks,- not only the programs !!!
For Minimax and B2003, it was pre configurated, so I never looked at these details before, also because it worked that way in SCOPE v4 and also w/ Prodyssey out of the box.
It´s NOT pre-configurated in Profit-5, that´s what I had overseen,- damn.

Yikes,- I got it working and I´m happy now !!!

thx again

Bud

[dante]

Hey Bud, can you post a pic of what you did ? I'm still stuck !

[Bud Weiser]

Hey Bud, can you post a pic of what you did ? I'm still stuck !

Hi Paul !

Pics later.
I did what you see in Jimmy´s screenshot above.
Look at the Profit 5 preset bank window,- there´s "0 -Factory" highlighted.

In my Profit 5 it was "-1 Factory",- but the presets in that bank were serially numbered "0 - 127" (128 patches).

A preset bank´s content doesn´t allow MIDI Prg Changes if all the single patches look like "-1 patchname".

But that also rules for the banks themselves,- if a banks looks like "-1 Factory", MIDI Prg Changes don´t work even all the patches in that bank are serially numbered "0-127".

The bank, allowing MIDI Prg Changes by changing patch numbers 1-128 on a masterkeyboard and without using MIDI Bank Change commands in addition, must be preset bank "0" in the preset bank list of a SCOPE instrument and all the 128 presets in that bank being serially numbered 0-127.
For any bank higher than "0", send a MIDI Bank Change command and the patch number !

By random, I messed something up while setting up banks, left-clicking w/ the mouse until I´ve found "auto indexing" Jimmy mentioned.
Within a second, the numbering and order of preset banks changed in the preset-bank list and I haven´t found out any way to change this, except reloading the Profit 5 preset bank (containing all 3 banks + MIDI bank) from SCOPE presets folder and repeat my work.
Well, I don´t read much in the manual, just try things out and shit happens.
So,- it´s a good idea, saving your stuff before checking out "auto indexing".

I didn´t understand why Jimmy indexed the highlighted bank 0 -Factory though.
For me, it works w/ 0 Factory.

hope my explanation is understandable ...

best

Bud

[dante]

Yeah ok thanks its starting to make sense. This is a case for a good ScopeRise article featuring these tips about MIDI patch (bank) change and Project Preset List.

It's been brewing as an issue for a while now. Let's wrap it up with some clarity

Profit5 AutoIndex

profit5-autoindex.gif (65.74 KiB) Viewed 4847 times

It's also great finally having you on XITE-1 now - for a few reasons !

[Bud Weiser]

Yeah ok thanks its starting to make sense. This is a case for a good ScopeRise article featuring these tips about MIDI patch (bank) change and Project Preset List.

It's been brewing as an issue for a while now. Let's wrap it up with some clarity

profit5-autoindex.gif

It's also great finally having you on XITE-1 now - for a few reasons !

Dante,- in your example above,- remove the (-) in front of the name "Factory" so it looks 0 Factory where "0" is in the number area.
Double check whether every patch in that bank is numbered or not,- it must work then.
I didn´t understand the autoindexing at all, for me it did nothing more than re-organizing the banks in a different order.
Do it manually and it works.

Can be, autoindexing makes sense if adding your own new banks to the list and want your bank on top and under the number "0".

I haven´t made any new bank up to now and maybe never will.
Instead I´ll backup the orginal file somewhere and overwrite existing patches,- saves time.
If I have 128 good patches for a "Prophet 5", I´m fine w/ that for a long time.

Bud

[Mr Arkadin]

I didn´t understand the autoindexing at all, for me it did nothing more than re-organizing the banks in a different order.
Do it manually and it works.

I think maybe you hit the 'sort by name' or 'sort by category' tabs just before hitting Autoindex (or just after) - this can give the appearance of the presets jumping around when all you've done is sorted them in a different order. If you number before sorting alphabetically then use the 'sort by name' option then the numbers can jump around. I have never had any issues with autoindex and I use it a lot (as well as right-click for category that people forget about too).

I haven´t made any new bank up to now and maybe never will.
Instead I´ll backup the orginal file somewhere and overwrite existing patches,- saves time.
If I have 128 good patches for a "Prophet 5", I´m fine w/ that for a long time.

There's really no need to do this, it's far easier to just create a new bank and save presets there. Or if you really wanted to go down that road, just copy the bank, renumber the original bank as 99 or some number you will never use, and use the copy to save over.

Copying a bank is very simple (sorry if this is teaching grandma to suck eggs). Open the preset list so you have the left and right panes open. In the left pane create a new bank which will be the copy bank. Open it - it will be empty at this stage.

In the right pane open the preset file and open the bank you want to copy. Click on the top preset so it is highlighted. Hold shift and click the bottom preset. You have now highlighted all the presets and can use Preset>Copy.

Now move to the left pane and hit Preset>Paste and you get all the presets copied over. Occasionally you'll get the irritating ":1" tagged at the end which is supposed to signify a duplicate name or something, but it's very inconsistent. I just delete it manually from the name. Now save the bank of course.

[Bud Weiser]

I think maybe you hit the 'sort by name' or 'sort by category' tabs just before hitting Autoindex (or just after) -

Thank You Mr. Arkadin !
Very usefull !!!

When I used SCOPEv4 and the PCI card,- I never thought about using in realtime,- so I changed my patches manually always.
Now and w/ XITE-1, that changed.

thx again

Bud

[Mr Arkadin]

I'm the opposite - when I had less DSP power I had to maximise the sounds I produced by lots of program changes. With XITE-1 I can now I can just keep loading a new instance of a synth for each new sound.

In my old Cubase I would set up two blank dummy MIDI parts where I wanted the program change. The first part would do the bank change, the second part would do the program change: I always found trying to do both in one command didn't really work. Also it means leaving a big enough gap between the outgoing preset and incoming preset - instantaneous change isn't really possible (although you can get close if the sounds are in the same bank).

I don't think you can do this in the newer versions of Cubase, I think the bank and program parameters are tied per track in the Inspector, rather than for each part (I have to admit I haven't used bank changes in a while so I will investigate further).