Nails in the Coffin

[Cochise]

Nope.
I can see a peak up around 1600 AD (2000 minus 400) in the 1st table, and a peak down (little ice age) in 5th table...

[garyb]

Nope.
I can see a peak up around 1600 AD (2000 minus 400) in the 1st table, and a peak down (little ice age) in 5th table...

yep, there's a bump on both. the question is "temperature change relative to what?". the graphs agree with each other more or less, the zero or median lines are obviously different. those graphs, like every graph anyone here has seen, are visual approximations.

the second graph is a much longer time period, so the variations in the last couple of hundred years are not seen. the fact is, the "little ice age" just ended in the 1800's. it HAS been getting warmer in the 20th century. the first graph is merely more detailed. compare the 400,000 year graph and you'll see how the cycles on earth are.

[Cochise]

My rickety english is getting worse since I'm not using it often. Right. Now I remember that a 'peak up' is just a peak, and a 'peak down' is a notch.
Apart for Co2 trend, it's not easy to forecast anything, as far I can see.
I guess sea temperature is closely correlated with the lower atmosphere. Or not?

[garyb]

yes, and no would be my guess. sea temperature is related to air temperature, but there are other dynamics as well, currents, land mass...

there's a 100,000 year cycle of some sort, give or take a few tens of thousands of years, and regular cycles within those cycles, and there are probably even more and even larger cycles as well, but the duration and amplitude of those cycles is relative and variable...

one thing's clear, there is and has never been something like "stable climate" on this earth, never. n-e-v-e-r...

[siriusbliss]

yes, and no would be my guess. sea temperature is related to air temperature, but there are other dynamics as well, currents, land mass...

there's a 100,000 year cycle of some sort, give or take a few tens of thousands of years, and regular cycles within those cycles, and there are probably even more and even larger cycles as well, but the duration and amplitude of those cycles is relative and variable...

one thing's clear, there is and has never been something like "stable climate" on this earth, never. n-e-v-e-r...

solar activity and flare cycles...tectonic events undersea...

Greg

[braincell]

the article just shows how experts change their minds. ( etc)

Science corrects mistakes, that is the difference between science and theology.

In related news the governor of Virginia has proclaimed April to be confederate history month. I say screw Virginia and all the asshole redneck inbreds! The south lost and they are still fighting the civil war. I would love to abolish all the states and have a country instead of this confederation where half the states consist of ignorant rednecks who are constantly doing everything they can to stop progress.

[dawman]

Science corrects mistakes, that is the difference between science and theology.

Perhaps an example of what " science " has corrrected.
Any links to back these brilliant claims...?
And the usual boring parroting of yours on " southern racists " and religious folks only proves you lost this arguement as you try and re direct your hatred by changing the subject.

exotic-parrot-wallpaper.jpg

[garyb]

the article just shows how experts change their minds. ( etc)

Science corrects mistakes, that is the difference between science and theology.

In related news the governor of Virginia has proclaimed April to be confederate history month. I say screw Virginia and all the asshole redneck inbreds! The south lost and they are still fighting the civil war. I would love to abolish all the states and have a country instead of this confederation where half the states consist of ignorant rednecks who are constantly doing everything they can to stop progress.

wow, what an ignorant spew. what, just kill all the folks that don't think the way you do? what, just imprison them for thought crimes?

have you seen the size of the "corrected" mistake? the one "corrected" with what is now KNOWN to be fake data? they were talking about global disaster well beyond the scale of the current theory. now, they tell us to believe the exact opposite 30 years later. if you think that 30 years of warming, when there had been a cooling trend is significant, than you have no sense of perspective, being such a young twerp. 30 years is less than a grain of sand on the beach. how do you KNOW that this isn't just another mistake to be "corrected"?

oncer again, the POINT of this thread is that these scientists have been CAUGHT FAKING DATA.

[siriusbliss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlMomLv ... r_embedded

[next to nothing]

slightly off topic, it's now raining "ash" (more like black glass particles) here, after the recent eruptions in Iceland. Craters that have blown now are between 200-500 meters in diameter. However, it is expected that Katla might errupt in the near future, read more about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katla . It has a main crater of 10 km....

I guess we are in for a cold summer up here

[astroman]

hopefully they don't charge Iceland for emission of greenhouse gases... maybe they can balance it with the cooling effect of the ash...
anyway, here goes your theory of human induced global influence...
this is just 1 small vulcano, and it would have been (almost) completely unnoticed, if it hadn't brought down central Europe's air traffic (because the wind blew in the 'wrong' direction)

cheers, Tom

[next to nothing]

i wouldn't say one rule out the other

[dawman]

hopefully they don't charge Iceland for emission of greenhouse gases...

...
I am concerned about the Glaciers' melting effects more than the Carbon Dioxide emmissions.
What we in the USA are hoping for is the Glacier to melt slowly which will moderate the thermal currents of the Atlantic and actually change the drastic cold and warm fronts that are causing an increase of the frequency of Hurricanes.

We have the Scientists who are relying on the Governments for their grants who know gloom and doom means more money, and even new titles such as " Climate Scientist ", and then those who are actually looking at the effect scenarios and commenting on the results as opposed to the Scare & Tax crowd.

[garyb]

the glacier melting problem isn't. i'm not worried.

funny joke that iceland volcano. it's already eclipsed any given country's co2 output. it should be 120 degrees in the shade any moment....

[siriusbliss]

Equivalent of 100,000 automobiles a year - PER DAY.

Live webcam:
http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull- ... olfsfelli/

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMKDU9MT7G_index_0.html

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2k8pa9/ww ... tions.html

***
in just one day, volcanic ash spewing forth from Iceland’s Eyjafjallajokull has brought airports to a halt in the United Kingdom, Ireland, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland and is expected to spread over other areas of Europe by Thursday evening. The last time this volcano blew, it was deadly, emitting large quantities of toxic fluoride gas.

Horrific history

The last time Eyjafjallajokull had an episode was in 1821, pouring tonnes of ash containing toxic fluoride gas into the atmosphere. It lasted not 24 hours, but until 1823, causing the deaths of many cattle and sheep through fluor poisoning. Eyjafjallajokull has had four eruptions in the last thousand years: in 920, 1612, 1821-1823 and now in 2010. All of the previous eruptions were precursors to more massive activity from the neighbouring Katla volcano but as yet geologists have not registered any seismic activity.

Eyjafjallajokull, a glacier covering a volcano of 1,600 metres in height and with a crater of 3 to 4 km in diameter, started becoming unstable at the end of 2009, when a number of small earthquakes fuelled by building pressure seven kilometres beneath the volcano gave rise to a peak in activity – 3,000 earthquakes were registered between March 3 and 5 this year. This in turn was followed by an eruption on March 20.

There were two further eruptions on April 13 and 14, under the glacier causing meltwater floods to force the evacuation of 800 people from the slopes. From Wednesday to Thursday a huge cloud of ash, which continues to billow from the volcano, spread eastwards, causing flights to be cancelled across Western and Northern Europe.

Wider health threat

The last time this volcano erupted in 1821-1823, sheep and cows on its slopes were killed by toxic fluoride gas which also affects horses and humans. Easily absorbed through the skin or eyes, a quantity as small as 28 mg per kilo of body mass is fatal.

It is currently not possible to predict how long the ash cloud will remain over Europe’s skies, especially because if the volcano continues to spew forth tonnes of material every hour, the situation can only worsen if the wind continues to push the plume eastwards. The plume itself reaches 30 to 35,000 feet high.

A network of Volcanic Ash Advisory Centers are monitoring the movements of the cloud, using a technique which models the plume (taking into consideration its altitude, time of formation and volume) and this model is placed onto a graphical forecaster program format which uses wind plans to predict movements.

***

Meanwhile...
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/169 ... by-experts

[braincell]

Scientists have serious work to do so leave them alone. Confronting them because of your stupid ideology is pointless and a nuisance; furthermore, it impedes progress.

"For a start, it is obvious that scientists need to face the simple matter of dealing with requests for access to data. The small-scale nature of Jones's operations made him a target for critics who bombarded him with requests under freedom of information legislation. Jones struggled to meet those demands. Hence the testy nature of his email responses on occasions, a feature that was seized on by deniers."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... lia-report

[dawman]

Scientists have serious work to do so leave them alone. Confronting them because of your stupid ideology is pointless and a nuisance; furthermore, it impedes progress.

Progress would be to see you have an original thought instead of the continuos copy/paste Parrot Boy nonsense.
I remember when Van Donniken came out with his books, he was visciously attacked by the " Scientists " and archeologists as their grants were now being challenged.
Then the Vatican and theologists were just as hateful and pathetic.
Years later we now have an Observatory paid for by the Vatican, and there are privately funded " Biblical Archeologists."
I came to this conclusion from reading and using my own Brain for processing....you should try it, you might surprise yourself, on second thought, probably not.

How about a Scientist who has proven capabilites instead of these Grant collecting political hacks...??
I remember Scientists and Scholars like Heinrich Schliemann who actually contributed something instead of accepting cash up front for their " opinions and unprovable theories."
Then there's the Scientists who are being paid to kill people with their Military applications.
So I prefer Scientists like we are going to cut at NASA who have actually taken ideas and made them into reality, and those who avoid the Scare & Tax business w/ Al Gore and his Elite UN Bosses.
These finger wagging Proffessors can suck my ass. They are in the business of unprovable Theories. IMHO, the FDA and Monsanto employ the most despicable " Scientists. "
During a time of relative peace they are using Food of the Future as a weapon, pesticides and chem trail experiments, and even the poor Indians of Oaxaca are finding GM Mutated crops in an area that is the purest harvest in the world.
If anyone is going to destroy the enviroment it isn't us little C02 emmiters, but these Scientists and their evil concoctions and revenue creating theories.

[siriusbliss]

Scientists have serious work to do so leave them alone. Confronting them because of your stupid ideology is pointless and a nuisance; furthermore, it impedes progress.

Which scientists? The ones that only satisfy YOUR narrow-minded ideology?

How about educating yourself on GMOs, vaccines, and the whole pharmaceutical juggernaut?

Come on man, wake up. Gotta learn to differentiate agenda from truth.

Greg

[Mr Arkadin]

"For a start, it is obvious that scientists need to face the simple matter of dealing with requests for access to data. The small-scale nature of Jones's operations made him a target for critics who bombarded him with requests under freedom of information legislation. Jones struggled to meet those demands. Hence the testy nature of his email responses on occasions, a feature that was seized on by deniers."

btw for our non-British viewers The Guardian where this 'news' item was quoted from is a leftist pro-Labour rag trading as being independent. Just so you know where their agenda is coming from. Also every official inquiry into anything always exonerates - check the Hutton report on the Iraq affair at al.

[garyb]

besides, that sounds like a good explanation......if you've never actually READ the emails.

if you read the emails, you'd understand why i say fake and fraud(oh yes, they are PUBLICLY available and vetted as genuine by the actual emailers themselves in fact, if you still haven't read them maybe you should stfu). this has nothing to do with "something someone said onthe internet". it's about reality. co2 is NOT causing "global warming" or even "climate change".