Windows 7 Reduces Audio Latency

[valis]

The way that you eliminate 'dropouts' with streaming audio over HIGH latency connections like 'the internet' is by using larger buffers and more of them. You do this to compensate for the buffer underruns that occur when the transport layer (the internet again) can't keep up with servicing the buffers. Kind of like using a high ASIO buffer size when you have dropouts with Scope. There's something in the system bus causing congestion, making it more difficult for the cpu to service the audio buffer and complete all the processing it needs to do. Obviously just having a 'quadcore' doesn't solve this, there's something else going on (at least that's obvious to most of the rest of the people in this thread.)

Wireless & graphics card drivers are given as an example since they're common culprits, I wasn't suggesting that was INDEED your problem. The idea isn't to interpret things literally so you can easily dispense with them, it's to follow typical troubleshooting techniques to figure out the source of whatever the issue is you're experiencing. Or you can just play ring around the rosie with OS's too I guess.

Still, congrats that Win7 'solved' your issues.

[braincell]

Indeed there must have been a problem unique to my computer since I haven't heard bad things about Echo Audio drivers. Now that it is fixed, we will never really know if it is because Microsoft made Windows 7 better or if it is just accidentally better.

Obviously buffers help streaming. I can only tell you that the Microsoft engineer working on audio for Windows 7 said that latency causes dropouts and when Microsoft customers are listening to internet radio and it drops out, they hear from them. I'm not saying he is an idiot nor am I saying you know more than he does but apparently latency is an issue for common people, perhaps on slow computers with multiple windows open.

Having used Windows 7 a lot recently, I don't understand why it is not for sale now.

[garyb]

decorum prevents me....

[valis]

Indeed there must have been a problem unique to my computer since I haven't heard bad things about Echo Audio drivers. Now that it is fixed, we will never really know if it is because Microsoft made Windows 7 better or if it is just accidentally better.

Emphasis mine...(decorum didn't prevent me), not trying to be harsh here though. There are many happy musicians out there happily computing with a Mac because "OSX made it better" as well...

Obviously buffers help streaming. I can only tell you that the Microsoft engineer working on audio for Windows 7 said that latency causes dropouts and when Microsoft customers are listening to internet radio and it drops out, they hear from them. I'm not saying he is an idiot nor am I saying you know more than he does but apparently latency is an issue for common people, perhaps on slow computers with multiple windows open.

I'm willing to bet if we wanted to talk about Win7 and whatever this MS engineer's involvement with it was he'd win hands down. I'm not trying to flaunt any superiority over an 'expert' or anything, I just think you're taking something out of context. Consider this chain: something said (typed?) by him, possibly interpreted and then reported by another person (and perhaps edited by yet another person), read by you, interpreted by your head and then re-interpreted for your statement here. That's a rather long chain of hearsay and it's likely somewhere there's misunderstanding or oversimplification

Low latency drivers which operate in terms of samples (10ms and below?) have been somehow improved to compensate for buffer underruns or playing back data that transits a network where 10ms is going to be the first 2 hops out of 12 to 18, that just doesn't make sense. Some statement on an improvement or bugfix in relation to one situation was applied to another perhaps?

Anyway the main issue here is that you made the claim that Win7 has solved an issue that most people don't actually have. Noone is sad to see that you've resolved your issues, we're just banging our heads (again) at the fact that you're applying your subjective experience to conversation in a way that makes it sound like empirical objective gobbledygook. Simple things like stating "Windows 7 Reduces Audio Latency for me" make all the difference...

[braincell]

.

[garyb]

the internet....






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[braincell]

There are 50 million lines of code in Windows 7. Don't pretend that you fully understand all the interactions. Things are not as cut and dry as you think. Acting like you know everything only makes you seem to be an ass.

I like what Mike Kobrin said:


"Overall, I like that MS attacked the problem of latency, because that’s what causes most user frustration; there’s nothing so annoying as having your audio suddenly drop out on you when you’re streaming it across your house—or across the Internet"

Mike is a freelance writer and has written for publications including Popular Science, Men's Journal, DigitalTrends, Laptop Magazine, CNet, PC Magazine, Imaging-Resource.com, and CrunchGear.com. He's also a working trumpet player in NYC.

He has credentials. What are your credentials Valis?

[next to nothing]

"Overall, I like that MS attacked the problem of latency, because that’s what causes most user frustration; there’s nothing so annoying as having your audio suddenly drop out on you when you’re streaming it across your house—or across the Internet"

Please also quote where he says WaveRT is going to help this. I suspect he is talking about network latency, where the old model of Windows Zero Configuration service introduced ping-spikes on Wi-Fi, which again caused dropouts when streaming. Which again has nothing to do with your soundcard.

Fuck credentials. A basic knowledge would help a lot of people.

[braincell]

WaveRT is designed for professional musicians. I said latency disrupts internet radio which is why it is a concern for Microsoft. You have to read what I said.

[next to nothing]

my point is the latency he is speaking about probably have nothing to do with audio drivers or sound cards at all. From the small quote you put here i read it he is talking about latency between nodes; a sender and a receiver (or more), to ensure a high quality stream of media.

Sorry that i misunderstood you, just wanted to make clear that the latency of your soundcard has nothing to do with this.

[braincell]

I am sorry next to nothing.

[valis]

Braincell, next to nothing is repeating the points I was trying to make. Network latency, media player output and low latency Audio are not at all the same things. Though they do reside in the same OS when you're using Win7 and there will be points where they share at least something in common.

Also I am not refuting that there may have been improvements in Win7 that affect low latency audio, just that you can't extrapolate as much from the material you're quoting as you're trying to.

He has credentials. What are your credentials Valis?

Once again you're trying to play racketball with people who are only trying to be helpful. My credentials are the same as they've always been, I use some of the same tools as others here and am willing to discuss & share our experiences. I could give a grue's fart about being a card-carrying expert just for the sake of a simple forum discussion.

[braincell]

I am sorry Valis. I'm just glad my DAW is working really well. I told Echo Audio I finally got it performing the way it should because of Windows 7. The upgrade didn't seem to be bad even though a clean install usually is best.

[valis]

It's ok, live & learn eh? Your Vista install was relatively new so I can imagine it wasn't too bad of a migration. Just make sure to get some music done.

[braincell]

Thanks Valis. Right now I have the small bathroom set up as a recording booth because it has less reverb. I just keep going in there and record hours of sax with an eye on the chromatic tuner. I had a hard time playing in tune until I realized the tuner was not calibrated!