sometimes when using my luna i feel like i am really just troubleshooting for creamware....
anyway...please post problems you note when using the modular. go into detail if you can, and if you test things and post these results i'm sure creamware would be more willing to listen. this thread shouldn't be used for asking questions, but instead sharing experiences, constructive help, and group troubleshooting.
this thread is an idea borrowed from algorhthym's thread "New Ideas for the Creamware! Modular".
i am trying to start this up in the hopes that it will provide another means of communicating and gathering together, problems, bugs, things that need improvments, or what have you that could and should be addressed in the modular.
1. the double edged sword....
i am building this patch, lets say. it is a large patch. my intention when first building this patch was to provide a means to play the patch via continuous controllers. so, after about a month of on/off working on this patch, it is to the point where i could not possibly hope to add anything else to it really. it is all that i hoped for and some happy accidents, and new ideas have sprouted up in the time it was being made.
so, i have about 50! controllers assigned in this patch.
and now the first bug rears its ugly head.
controllers are global for a patch, yet each time one changes a preset it is presumable that the modular reloads EVERY single controller. how does one know this? well, on timing the amount of time it takes to change a preset in the same patch with NO controllers assigned, the difference in time is on the order of 11 seconds (14 seconds -vs- 25 seconds), now these times are attrocious in and of themselves, but i won't get into that now.
the second part of the "double-edged sword" is that when i removed ALL of these controllers, only the one preset i had loaded at that time worked after all the controllers were removed.
its like the modular freaked out and set all the values of every other preset to some unplayable state. i tested this out by manually tweaking each control in one of these non-sounding presets, and sure enough after tweaking nealy EVERY funking control, sound returned, slowly.....
its not like i can do this "resetting" of parameters once and everything is ok all around. EVERY PRESET HAS TO HAVE THIS DONE!!!! ahhhhh....this is terrible.
i haven't tested this out on any other patches, maybe i will. maybe something is screwy with my system. i don't know, but i am seriously pissed off because of these two "bugs" i have encountered.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: castol on 2002-03-27 08:57 ]</font>
Thread for *noting* bugs, problems, & improvements to the Mo
my second (third) gripe is that when changing presests while i am sequencing, i am basically giving control over to creamware. my system is uncontrollable until the preset finishes loading.
in my case with my big patches this is on the order of half a minute!.......
now, audio and midi in the sequencer continue playing....but sometimes i get pops, clicks...and what not. i haven't tested this very throughly.
BUTTT! the other day when i encountered the "double-edged sword" (not the first w/ the more cc's = longer preset load time bug) i didn't realize i had soundmanager playing via my built-in a/v ports (the cw audio driver is rubbish, i won't use it again unless i absolutely need to stream audio into luna), instead of ASIO. audio tracks (didn't test out any midi tracks) in my sequencer kept on dying like halfway through these program changes.....i was sooooo crushed when this started happening. only later did i realize i didn't have the ASIO driver loaded in my sequencer. after selecting the ASIO driver, audio and midi tracks didn't cut out, but i did get some strange clicking/popping of stuff, which didn't sound good.
AND it still took half a freaking minute to change the preset....in this time my system was under the hypnotic spell of the pulsating creamware luna icon, heh.
this is a very large problem. i mean what good is it to even have presets and be able to assign program change numbers if it takes an age to do so and it makes your system bow to this loading?
i am sure software can be written to not yank control from the user? there is a name for this, but i forget it at the moment.
now, having said this. i would be interested to know how others fare on changing presets of large patches while working in a soft sequencer (use my dis+taste_v1-1 as a test. i can post a preset load time for this. i did time it in the past, but i don't recall how long it was).
also, does your pulsar/luna/scope yank control from you while loading presets?
when i say yank control, i mean one can not do anything but move their cursor around the screen, nothing else. maybe on pc the pointer even gets stuck.
macs are known for their allways functioning pointer. it never sticks or freezes in movement as one is waving their mouse/around. on pc's the pointer is regularly interupted and frozen in movement, which is very disconcerting to me. i'm straying off-topic here, sorry.
anyways, anyone care to share their experience?
i'm sure i can probobly find a workaround, or just workaround these 3 noted problems, but....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: castol on 2002-03-27 08:21 ]</font>
in my case with my big patches this is on the order of half a minute!.......
now, audio and midi in the sequencer continue playing....but sometimes i get pops, clicks...and what not. i haven't tested this very throughly.
BUTTT! the other day when i encountered the "double-edged sword" (not the first w/ the more cc's = longer preset load time bug) i didn't realize i had soundmanager playing via my built-in a/v ports (the cw audio driver is rubbish, i won't use it again unless i absolutely need to stream audio into luna), instead of ASIO. audio tracks (didn't test out any midi tracks) in my sequencer kept on dying like halfway through these program changes.....i was sooooo crushed when this started happening. only later did i realize i didn't have the ASIO driver loaded in my sequencer. after selecting the ASIO driver, audio and midi tracks didn't cut out, but i did get some strange clicking/popping of stuff, which didn't sound good.
AND it still took half a freaking minute to change the preset....in this time my system was under the hypnotic spell of the pulsating creamware luna icon, heh.
this is a very large problem. i mean what good is it to even have presets and be able to assign program change numbers if it takes an age to do so and it makes your system bow to this loading?
i am sure software can be written to not yank control from the user? there is a name for this, but i forget it at the moment.
now, having said this. i would be interested to know how others fare on changing presets of large patches while working in a soft sequencer (use my dis+taste_v1-1 as a test. i can post a preset load time for this. i did time it in the past, but i don't recall how long it was).
also, does your pulsar/luna/scope yank control from you while loading presets?
when i say yank control, i mean one can not do anything but move their cursor around the screen, nothing else. maybe on pc the pointer even gets stuck.
macs are known for their allways functioning pointer. it never sticks or freezes in movement as one is waving their mouse/around. on pc's the pointer is regularly interupted and frozen in movement, which is very disconcerting to me. i'm straying off-topic here, sorry.
anyways, anyone care to share their experience?
i'm sure i can probobly find a workaround, or just workaround these 3 noted problems, but....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: castol on 2002-03-27 08:21 ]</font>
-about presets and Mod2-
Hi,
Remember the days before v3.x? OS 3.0 brought quick preset lists. Why? Cos they only rest the front panel knobs. 2.04. presets reload every parameter under the surface too. This unnecessary bulk of data is removed from V3.0 presets. That's why they're quicker.
Now when you're in modular, your preset change will contain loads of data, cos every knob is a user setting. All knobs saved/recalled by the preset are in the GUI.
Did you notice Mod2 has no V3.0 preset list? It uses 2.04 preset list.
I know that should it would be nice to have them lots quicker, but I'm happy to save one preset for this piculiar song an reload that patch when I open the song. The rest can easily be done w CC#. You can save CC# assignment inside the patch, just as w any (unprotected) 2.04 device.
at0mic.
Hi,
Remember the days before v3.x? OS 3.0 brought quick preset lists. Why? Cos they only rest the front panel knobs. 2.04. presets reload every parameter under the surface too. This unnecessary bulk of data is removed from V3.0 presets. That's why they're quicker.
Now when you're in modular, your preset change will contain loads of data, cos every knob is a user setting. All knobs saved/recalled by the preset are in the GUI.
Did you notice Mod2 has no V3.0 preset list? It uses 2.04 preset list.
I know that should it would be nice to have them lots quicker, but I'm happy to save one preset for this piculiar song an reload that patch when I open the song. The rest can easily be done w CC#. You can save CC# assignment inside the patch, just as w any (unprotected) 2.04 device.
at0mic.
more has been done with less
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
thanks for the reply atOmic.
sorry, i just found that a little humorous
i'm afraid i'm running os 2.52 (more reluctantly every single day), i should and want to upgrade. i'm gonna wait until 3.1 comes about though.
i wasn't aware of what you mention. this is good to hear, and have explained in some detail. thanks for sharing.
the modular hasn't been made to take advantage of these faster preset loads? is this what your saying?
i agree with you, i don't really need to be changing presets as i'm sequencing and really i've never worked that way, but you must admit that it does provide some flexibility when your dsp, and timbrality is limited.
when there are no cc's assigned, the time to change a preset is acceptable. but then this other problem popped up when i started removing cc's. so i'm faced with reinstalling luna and the modular (argh), i don't have any other idea of what i could do or what happened (if it isn't permanent. i really hope it isn't). i exchanged cset.ini with my backed up good copy, this didn't do anything though.
i swear i've been able to remove cc's without a problem before, but i'm not really sure.
i emailed creamware about this, but i will just go ahead and reinstall in the next few days.
your idea of using cc's to program a patch (if this is what you were getting at) and recording/replaying these settings in a soft sequencer is something i hadn't thought about. it might be a good work around. the thing is though, that my patches are using multisegment envelopes (can't control the breakpoints) and have way more than 127 different controls.
so this v3 preset list thing is somthing that could be added and would help with preset load times considerably.
an improvement is suggested!
best.
ahhh, yes those were the days...weren't they?
Remember the days before v3.x? OS 3.0 brought quick preset lists.
sorry, i just found that a little humorous
i'm afraid i'm running os 2.52 (more reluctantly every single day), i should and want to upgrade. i'm gonna wait until 3.1 comes about though.
i wasn't aware of what you mention. this is good to hear, and have explained in some detail. thanks for sharing.
the modular hasn't been made to take advantage of these faster preset loads? is this what your saying?
i agree with you, i don't really need to be changing presets as i'm sequencing and really i've never worked that way, but you must admit that it does provide some flexibility when your dsp, and timbrality is limited.
when there are no cc's assigned, the time to change a preset is acceptable. but then this other problem popped up when i started removing cc's. so i'm faced with reinstalling luna and the modular (argh), i don't have any other idea of what i could do or what happened (if it isn't permanent. i really hope it isn't). i exchanged cset.ini with my backed up good copy, this didn't do anything though.
i swear i've been able to remove cc's without a problem before, but i'm not really sure.
i emailed creamware about this, but i will just go ahead and reinstall in the next few days.
your idea of using cc's to program a patch (if this is what you were getting at) and recording/replaying these settings in a soft sequencer is something i hadn't thought about. it might be a good work around. the thing is though, that my patches are using multisegment envelopes (can't control the breakpoints) and have way more than 127 different controls.
so this v3 preset list thing is somthing that could be added and would help with preset load times considerably.
an improvement is suggested!
best.
emailed cw with a follow up, reinstalled luna and the modular to no good effect.
tested bug out to see if it could be repeated on a new patch, new behavior discovered, similar, but not exactly so. i am guessing there is a specific sequence of events that have to happen for this bug to be repeatable. this sounds like much fun finding out....no.
turns out the parameter on assigning or deassigning is being set to its absolute lowest value. clicking on the control and arrowing left, right for all parameters assigned or deassigned a controller and saving was my only option as i could see it.
so...spent an hour incrementing and deincrementing all 40 parameters for each of 30 presets, and saving - in order to have acceptable preset load times - in a duplicate patch, with no controllers assigned.
coming up.....problem number 4, or 5, is it?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: castol on 2002-03-29 09:14 ]</font>
tested bug out to see if it could be repeated on a new patch, new behavior discovered, similar, but not exactly so. i am guessing there is a specific sequence of events that have to happen for this bug to be repeatable. this sounds like much fun finding out....no.
turns out the parameter on assigning or deassigning is being set to its absolute lowest value. clicking on the control and arrowing left, right for all parameters assigned or deassigned a controller and saving was my only option as i could see it.
so...spent an hour incrementing and deincrementing all 40 parameters for each of 30 presets, and saving - in order to have acceptable preset load times - in a duplicate patch, with no controllers assigned.
coming up.....problem number 4, or 5, is it?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: castol on 2002-03-29 09:14 ]</font>
The Midi Drum Sequencer & Pattern Sequencer
problems i've come across....
MDS:
1. to get the MDS to respond to the Pattern Seq i have to connect the Pattern Seq PSQ out to both the P.NO input and PSQ input.
it states in the manual that only one or the other can work at the same time, yet with the intended (how other sequencers work) PSQ to PSQ connection the MDS will not change patterns.
2. the first sequence track is all funky in the MDS. i remove a step, and once it loops back the step reappears. sometimes if i wait before enabling or disabling more than one step, this one step won't disappear, or reappear in the case of removing a step or in addition, adding an accent.
sometimes steps play yet aren't visible. these behaviors seem really erratic and only happen on this first track, non others that i have experienced.
Pattern Seq:
1. only one problem noted thus far. Trying to input data, i have to "race" to type in a single character, to be able to "gain access" to inputing anything. if i don't do this then when the edit window pops up i can't delete, or add anything.
these problems are on a mac, using luna 2.52, and the modular II.
problems i've come across....
MDS:
1. to get the MDS to respond to the Pattern Seq i have to connect the Pattern Seq PSQ out to both the P.NO input and PSQ input.
it states in the manual that only one or the other can work at the same time, yet with the intended (how other sequencers work) PSQ to PSQ connection the MDS will not change patterns.
2. the first sequence track is all funky in the MDS. i remove a step, and once it loops back the step reappears. sometimes if i wait before enabling or disabling more than one step, this one step won't disappear, or reappear in the case of removing a step or in addition, adding an accent.
sometimes steps play yet aren't visible. these behaviors seem really erratic and only happen on this first track, non others that i have experienced.
Pattern Seq:
1. only one problem noted thus far. Trying to input data, i have to "race" to type in a single character, to be able to "gain access" to inputing anything. if i don't do this then when the edit window pops up i can't delete, or add anything.
these problems are on a mac, using luna 2.52, and the modular II.