I have looked around this forum a few times and can't find any direct comparisons between Protools HD and Scope. I apologize if I have missed it somewhere along the way. I am interested in the AD/DA comparisons and overall sound comparisons. Much appreciated it anyone has any thoughts or comments about this.
Cheers
scope vs. protools
hi, you may want to try on these:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 84&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 62&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 42&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 91&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 21&forum=5
...
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 84&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 62&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 42&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 91&forum=5
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 21&forum=5
...
more has been done with less
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
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ChrisWerner
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I sat in front of an ICON/Protools 192 track workspace few weeks back for a recording workshop, hapless I can´t compare the converter quality to scope.
I guess both work fine.
Would be nice to have an ICON console on a Nuendo/Scope system, though.
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2006-06-19 07:09 ]</font>
I guess both work fine.
Would be nice to have an ICON console on a Nuendo/Scope system, though.
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2006-06-19 07:09 ]</font>
The 192 converters are very good. The 96 units are just rebadged 888 i/o's.
You pay a heavy price for the 192 converter unit. It would be better to purchase a standalone ADAT-equipped high quality AD/DA system like Apogee/Lucid etc. Combined with a Scope Pro card, this is still cheaper than a PT system.
A more important consideration is how you are going to use it. With Pro Tools HD hardware, you're limited to using Pro Tools or Logic on Mac. The Logic option has some limitations (more limited routing, no PDC with TDM plugins). Not all plugins are available on Windows.
Another consideration is that Scope has totally free modular routing. Pro Tools TDM routing is much more limited.
Scope does not work on OSX. Pro Tools does.
Digidesign often has very annoying and expensive upgrade paths, and are not big on backwards-compatibility.
Audio quality of the processing on both systems is very comparable in my opinion, although they do sound different.
You pay a heavy price for the 192 converter unit. It would be better to purchase a standalone ADAT-equipped high quality AD/DA system like Apogee/Lucid etc. Combined with a Scope Pro card, this is still cheaper than a PT system.
A more important consideration is how you are going to use it. With Pro Tools HD hardware, you're limited to using Pro Tools or Logic on Mac. The Logic option has some limitations (more limited routing, no PDC with TDM plugins). Not all plugins are available on Windows.
Another consideration is that Scope has totally free modular routing. Pro Tools TDM routing is much more limited.
Scope does not work on OSX. Pro Tools does.
Digidesign often has very annoying and expensive upgrade paths, and are not big on backwards-compatibility.
Audio quality of the processing on both systems is very comparable in my opinion, although they do sound different.
Something that I find interesting which may be worth consideration is the fact that old Pro Tools gear has devalued *massively* while Scope cards haven't (well to nowhere near the same extent anyway). I doubt that even a new generation of Scope would devalue the current Scope cards to the same extent that PT gear has been devalued over the years.
One other thing I forgot - Pro Tools system comes with a high quality industry-standard audio recording/editing system with some tacked-on basic MIDI functionality.
There is nothing like this for Scope, although you can use any sequencer like Logic/Cubase/Sonar/Acid etc. VDAT is nice, but is not comparable to Pro Tools by any stretch of the imagination.
To use Pro Tools HD, the only really viable platforms are Mac+PT or Mac+Logic.
[edit] I forgot Mac+Digital Performer. Although I have no idea how anyone can figure out that obtuse, convoluted program.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2006-06-19 08:18 ]</font>
There is nothing like this for Scope, although you can use any sequencer like Logic/Cubase/Sonar/Acid etc. VDAT is nice, but is not comparable to Pro Tools by any stretch of the imagination.
To use Pro Tools HD, the only really viable platforms are Mac+PT or Mac+Logic.
[edit] I forgot Mac+Digital Performer. Although I have no idea how anyone can figure out that obtuse, convoluted program.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2006-06-19 08:18 ]</font>
scope performs very favorably compared to PT if the consideration is audio. PT has the advantage in integrated hardware controllers etc., but at quite a high price. if money is no object, a PT rig might be just the thing. if price is any consideration, the scope rig will equal or out perform the PT rig for 1/10th of the cost(except for the 24hr tech support...).
I'd also say that with Scope alongside a good audio editor like Samplitude, there is simply nothing you cannot do on a PT rig, functionally. The only plugin I can think of without an equivalent for Scope is Eventide Octavox/Quadravox. It is an incredible plugin, but if you need it badly enough you can buy an Orville/H8000. I've found most TDM plugins to be not that great at all, aside from Eventide, Sony Oxford, UA and Soundtoys. There are plenty of Scope plugins with algorithms just as good as these (with the exception of the harmonizer as I already mentioned).
On top of this, there is a hell of a lot of stuff you can do with Scope that you could never do with a PT HD rig.
On top of this, there is a hell of a lot of stuff you can do with Scope that you could never do with a PT HD rig.
Another thing - DSP usage.
On an HD rig, a UA 1176 LN (the version with transformer modelling) takes a whole DSP chip. I can't remember the exact number of DSPs, but I use an core+accel config, and there are around 12 chips as far as I can remember.
A UA cambridge EQ takes 50% of a chip, while most of the Eventide plugins take a whole DSP.
BTW UA just stopped making TDM versions but the above figures should give you some idea.
[edit] above figures at 44.1khz, 24 bit. Don't ask me to test 96khz, there's just no point (and no, this is not a cue to start a samplerate discussion)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2006-06-19 11:20 ]</font>
On an HD rig, a UA 1176 LN (the version with transformer modelling) takes a whole DSP chip. I can't remember the exact number of DSPs, but I use an core+accel config, and there are around 12 chips as far as I can remember.
A UA cambridge EQ takes 50% of a chip, while most of the Eventide plugins take a whole DSP.
BTW UA just stopped making TDM versions but the above figures should give you some idea.
[edit] above figures at 44.1khz, 24 bit. Don't ask me to test 96khz, there's just no point (and no, this is not a cue to start a samplerate discussion)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2006-06-19 11:20 ]</font>
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toadmanxtro
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Wow...You guys are great. You answered all my questions and then some all within a few short hours. I was stunned at the amount of replies I had received.
It sounds like the best way would be to use my apogee trak 2 via adat to the scope project card. I've been using the Digi001 for years and bypassing thier converters with the apogee. But after wanting to upgrade and hearing the minimax ASB in the store I was very impressed by creamware. And if scope is a similar quality to their minimax ASB system I am sure it will be very good indeed.
Cheers
It sounds like the best way would be to use my apogee trak 2 via adat to the scope project card. I've been using the Digi001 for years and bypassing thier converters with the apogee. But after wanting to upgrade and hearing the minimax ASB in the store I was very impressed by creamware. And if scope is a similar quality to their minimax ASB system I am sure it will be very good indeed.
Cheers
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hubird
If Creamware would support OSX (and possibly could create a solution for the PCi slot problem concerning the newer macs) a fresh marketing 'attack' against Protools would be absolutely possible.
Scope price in conjunction with it's quality is a winning horse, and that is an understatement
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2006-06-19 21:56 ]</font>
Scope price in conjunction with it's quality is a winning horse, and that is an understatement
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2006-06-19 21:56 ]</font>
It is impossible to beat the marketing muscle of Digidesign, and slightly insane to think it is possible, sorry. The budget of their marketing department alone is probably more than that for the entire Creamware company.
In any case, they have the 'industry standard' editor. This means that people have paid money to be trained in using it, and studios have invested big money in the hardware. Compatibility between studios is a *big deal*, so I can't see Pro Tools disappearing any time soon.
In any case, they have the 'industry standard' editor. This means that people have paid money to be trained in using it, and studios have invested big money in the hardware. Compatibility between studios is a *big deal*, so I can't see Pro Tools disappearing any time soon.
i've worked with pro tools in the past years and i've decided not to join to the digidesign marketing plans.
There was a period before year 1999 where pro tools was the only solution to make pro audio recording using a computer.
Today things are totally different.
Digidesign offers to you an expensive closed architecture audio system that is anachronistic for the age in which we live.
About software editing, there are tons of advanced tools available on the market and i don't feel the lack of pro tools.
I don't like to be obliged to use the overpriced digidesign converters and i prefer to plug my ad/da universal hardware to the digital connectors of my audio cards.
Another hateful behavior of digidesign is the upgrade policy and i still remember about owners of the 16 bit pro tools that after just 6 months of buying it had had to pay a new f*****g 10000 euros leasing for a 24 bit recording functionality....
About the cool hardware controllers, it's just an illusion for the eyes of your studio customers, but there is something of similar that can be used with every midi controllable software such as this http://www.wk-audio.de/?Virtual-Internet-Controler .
There was a period before year 1999 where pro tools was the only solution to make pro audio recording using a computer.
Today things are totally different.
Digidesign offers to you an expensive closed architecture audio system that is anachronistic for the age in which we live.
About software editing, there are tons of advanced tools available on the market and i don't feel the lack of pro tools.
I don't like to be obliged to use the overpriced digidesign converters and i prefer to plug my ad/da universal hardware to the digital connectors of my audio cards.
Another hateful behavior of digidesign is the upgrade policy and i still remember about owners of the 16 bit pro tools that after just 6 months of buying it had had to pay a new f*****g 10000 euros leasing for a 24 bit recording functionality....
About the cool hardware controllers, it's just an illusion for the eyes of your studio customers, but there is something of similar that can be used with every midi controllable software such as this http://www.wk-audio.de/?Virtual-Internet-Controler .