look at this...

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:12 am

http://www.thomann.de/de/creamware_system_1200_asb.htm

Anna Lüse · Post by **Anna Lüse** » Sun May 07, 2006 12:23 pm

All technical data should be "x 2".

ScofieldKid · Post by **ScofieldKid** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:41 pm

Well, it's not quite what I was hoping for.

The deficiency I see with the current products is that the "additional" menu is absent from the physical interfaces.

They made some choices to keep the boxes small and down to a certain price. But I actually wish they had expanded the interface so you could truly operate them at full capability without having to dig into the computer gui.

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:51 pm

It is just a stack assembly of one MINIMAX ASB + one PRO-12 ASB without any exchange between them.

They also offer a kit to build up such thing when you have already these two units:

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw9_artikel-192492.html

Only mechanical stuff. Not really of any interest for me...

Anna Lüse · Post by **Anna Lüse** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:57 pm

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 37&forum=5

EricNS · Post by **EricNS** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:47 am

On 2006-05-07 16:51, FRA59-HELP wrote:
It is just a stack assembly of one MINIMAX ASB + one PRO-12 ASB without any exchange between them.

They also offer a kit to build up such thing when you have already these two units:

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw9_artikel-192492.html

Only mechanical stuff. Not really of any interest for me...

The gray plastic is ugly.

An hybrid synth with integrated Minimax/Pro12/Prodyssey sound generators and controlers would be cool though.

Best,

Eric

Anna Lüse · Post by **Anna Lüse** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:30 am

Version "Technology": real wood in fiery mouse-grey
Version "Nature": real wood

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:40 am

yeah, get your facts straight EricNS!

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:30 am

I kind of like this idea form EricNS of a fusion between MINIMAX/PRO-12/PRODYSSEY. Would have added the PRO-ONE also.

Should be able to load standard ASB patch from any of these devices and should be able to mix the features of theses different synth units.

Oscillator:
- up to 3 of them, each selectable with one of the different units

Filter:
- selection from one of different units with ADSR enveloppe
- HPF filter from the PRODYSSEY

Amplitude:
- ADSR with extra panning modulation feature

Special features:
- Modulation matrix inspired form the PRO-12
- A set of enveloppe generator from the differents unist
- Sample and hold unit form the PRODYSSEY

Extra feature that would further extend this unit:
- Extra bandpass filter from the Synton Syrinx
- Waldorf Wavetable Oscillator
- Continuous morphing Oscilator inspired from RSF Kobol

The main difficulty to build up such device would probably be:
- more DSP power need (had one or two more DSP)
- designing a fusion control surface with a mode selector (MINIMAX/PRO-12/PRODYSSEY/PRO-ONE/FUSION) which light some led to show what knob are usefull or not according to the selection.

Seems not that bad.

Could anybody from CW give us a release date?

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 05:31 ]

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 05:32 ]

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 06:01 ]

EricNS · Post by **EricNS** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:29 am

On 2006-05-08 02:40, King of Snake wrote:
yeah, get your facts straight EricNS!

Oooopsy! Sorry!

It's still ugly though...

Cheers,

Eric

[ This Message was edited by: EricNS on 2006-05-08 08:46 ]

EricNS · Post by **EricNS** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:45 am

On 2006-05-08 05:30, FRA59-HELP wrote:
I kind of like this idea form EricNS of a fusion between MINIMAX/PRO-12/PRODYSSEY. Would have added the PRO-ONE also.

Should be able to load standard ASB patch from any of these devices and should be able to mix the features of theses different synth units.

Oscillator:
- up to 3 of them, each selectable with one of the different units

Filter:
- selection from one of different units with ADSR enveloppe
- HPF filter from the PRODYSSEY

Amplitude:
- ADSR with extra panning modulation feature

Special features:
- Modulation matrix inspired form the PRO-12
- A set of enveloppe generator from the differents unist
- Sample and hold unit form the PRODYSSEY

Extra feature that would further extend this unit:
- Extra bandpass filter from the Synton Syrinx
- Waldorf Wavetable Oscillator
- Continuous morphing Oscilator inspired from RSF Kobol

The main difficulty to build up such device would probably be:
- more DSP power need (had one or two more DSP)
- designing a fusion control surface with a mode selector (MINIMAX/PRO-12/PRODYSSEY/PRO-ONE/FUSION) which light some led to show what knob are usefull or not according to the selection.

Seems not that bad.

Could anybody from CW give us a release date?

That would be great!

I don't think that the DSP power is such an issue these days. The Access Virus mixes many synthesis together, is multitimbral and has a massive polyphony. You just have to pay for enough processors...

For the interface I'm not interested in yet another "classic synth" clone control surface. It's time to think about someting new. Creamware has more to offer than "replicas".

Cheers,

Eric

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:46 am

On 2006-05-08 05:30, FRA59-HELP wrote:
I kind of like this idea form EricNS of a fusion between MINIMAX/PRO-12/PRODYSSEY. Would have added the PRO-ONE also.

i guess it would be nice but would there really be a market for it? It would be very expensive and the NOAH was already this sort of "all in one" box (although with limited realtime controls) and that didn't do very well. It would be pretty much impossible to design a hardware interface covering all the different controls and designs properly as well.

Anna Lüse · Post by **Anna Lüse** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:58 am

A "best of all in one" will loose the identity of each machine.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:05 am

Sorry, but I think the Virus sounds quite poor for the sake of stupid amounts of polyphony.

I also think that such a device would cost too much to develop, and appeal to only a small amount of customers, because it would be complicated to use.

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:43 pm

i guess it would be nice but would there really be a market for it?

What would be the market for this System 1200 ?

It would be very expensive and the NOAH was already this sort of "all in one" box (although with limited realtime controls) and that didn't do very well.

I should tell you I do have a NOAH EX and I am really happy with it except for the control surface I just replace by a BCR2000 unit.
For the pricing, I think, it could be possible to have twice the number of DSP you have in a standard ASB (that is what you get from a system 1200 has it is in fact two units). This pricing is similar to the Virus TI desktop

It would be pretty much impossible to design a hardware interface covering all the different controls and designs properly as well.

Moreover, as 75 % of the control of this range of analog synthesizer is much similar (2 or 3 oscillators going though a filter and an amplifier with corresponding enveloppes). This should cost less than the control surface you have in System 100 as you wouldn't need twice the knob and switches.

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 13:43 ]

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 13:49 ]

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 14:02 ]

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:57 pm

On 2006-05-08 10:58, Anna Lüse wrote:
A "best of all in one" will loose the identity of each machine.

OK, so just offer such device without calling it "Authentic" Sound Box and find another name: I would tell "Polyvalent Sound Box".
I do not thing Identity is that much important: the most important identity there is "designed by CREAMWARE".
Why should creamware just offer clone device rather than offering some new ideas. It is important to look at what other did good, but is also important to imagine new features...

Last but not least, I think putting together 1 MINIMAX and 1 PRO-12 has nothing more to do with the identity of any of the two original devices. Is it inspired by the Roland Sytem 100 ? Should then be Roland modules emulation rather than putting one moog with one Sequetial circuit device.

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 14:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 14:06 ]

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:01 pm

I also think that such a device would cost too much to develop, and appeal to only a small amount of customers, because it would be complicated to use.

Once again, it shouldn't cost more than the system 1200 ASB.
On the developpement cost, what I suggest is just assembling things which already exist differently: I do not suggest to imagine a completely new device. Part of the work has already been made with noah and scope. The most important work would be the control surface design...

I do not see why it would be that more complicated than having to switch from a MINIMAX to a PRO-12. You still have to learn and experiment how to design sound with such a device.

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 14:37 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:25 pm

Perhaps you assume too much - such blending together of devices may seem simple to you, but someone still needs to program it to make sure it works how it should.

Don't take it the wrong way but speculation is easier than development...

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:36 pm

In fact I am involved in developpement of electronic systems for a completly different market.
One of our success has been to design a range of simple dedicated small systems solutions.
Then we also design such a fusion device which sells also quite good. This developpement was more a hardware one rather than a software one has we succed to re-use 90 % of the software...
Being involved in embedded electronic design I do know that developping things is not as easy as talking about it...

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 14:37 ]

[ This Message was edited by: FRA59-HELP on 2006-05-08 14:39 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:28 pm

[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-08-24 06:33 ]