Early MIDI notes with SX

grenal1 · Post by **grenal1** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:15 pm

Hi everybody
We are a lot of users who are suffering
of early MIDI notes when recording with
SX (see http://www.cubase.net, many threads
on this subject) and several are using Scope
on Pulsar or LUNA, others EMU, etc.
All these users have tried everything
about Window MIDI ports, Real Direct Music
ports, emulated Direct Music ports, and also sync to system clock but it does not solve the problem for all of us.
The problem seems a little bit random but linked to the fact that our soundcards are
also assigned for Multimedia Windows , and not only for SX with ASIO Scope Driver. And SX seems to fail its initialisation phase, meaning that , despite it displays "sync to DSP HW" , it in fact is sync to Multimedia windows driver for the MIDI recording (no problem with audio).
So Steinberg says : the problem is due to
the fact that the Multimedia Windows is mapped on your sound card, it should not.
OK, I agree with them about the reason,
but how can we do with Creamware to not
assign the Multimedia Windows to the sound card but to nothing, I mean, desactive completely the Multimedia Windows. I tried
in the Peripherals management to tell
windows to not use the CW card, or not map to the CW card, but it also cancel evey sound even when I'm in SX above the Scope ...

Does somebody knows how to manage this problem ?
Thanks a lot
grenal1

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:18 am

It sounds like you have the wrong driver assigned within Cubase itself. "ASIO Multimedia" and "ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Driver" have nothing to do with Creamware but rather are installed by Cubase Sx (and Nuendo) to allow you to use ASIO with soundcards that don't provide ASIO drivers. The Creamware supplied ASIO driver is "ASIO Scope".

Load Cubase (or Nuendo) and look under Devices > Device Setup then go to the VST Multitrack page in Device Setup and change the ASIO Driver to "ASIO Scope". Hit "Apply" then "OK"

Post by **garyb** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:20 am

exactly. no crazily tweaked setup required.

grenal1 · Post by **grenal1** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:51 am

Hi
No , you don't understand. I choose
ASIO Scope in SX, there is a problem
in SX (bug at init, etc. you can see
it in various thread of Cubase.net)
and in fact, despite I choose the ASIO
SCope ASIO driver in SX, SX is synchronizing
itself at init on Multimedia XP Driver,
just for MIDI recording, which lead to
lots of early notes when recording MIDI.
SO I would like to de-activate the Multimedia
XP completely, or at least to not mapp it
to the Creamware cards...
Clearer ?
Thanks
grenal1

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:46 am

Which version of SX? (Incl. any updates etc.)

Royston

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:00 am

I do recall someone else posting that the ASIO Multimedia 'profiling' of your setup needed to be completed before switching to ASIO Scope drivers for things to work properly, perhaps try the seaerch button at the top of the forums?

I used Nuendo from 1.3 through 1.6x (though I am now a Logic user) and never experienced that myself. The people I know using Cubase Sx 2.x and 3.x haven't had that problem either...

What version of Cubase are you using and can you post a screenshot of your Scope project?

grenal1 · Post by **grenal1** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:10 am

Hi
Whatever version of SX : SX2, SX3 and SX3.01
the problem remains.
We are a lot to complain of this problem
on Cubase.net, but it seems to be a little
bit random with regard to the system, because
I know there are lots of configurations where
there is not the problem...
My project Scope is ok, I'm used to Creamware.
But, i'll search for Multimedia "profiling" at the
end of the day ...(I'm at work now)...
grenal1

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:09 am

grenal1 wrote:

Whatever version of SX : SX2, SX3 and SX3.01
the problem remains.

Right, so the problem only exists in SX2 onwards, is that correct? Is the problem also limited to Windows XP (i.e. does not occur on e.g. Win 2000)?

Royston

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:31 am

Some initial investigations:

"Since upgrading from Cubase SX to SX3 when I record midi the notes are recorded significantly early."

"When I last did my tests on my system (around November), the MIDI timing was fine with Logic and Tracktion, but not good on Cubase SX. Same hardware."

From the above posts, I would conclude that this is not a hardware or OS issue. As far as I can tell, nobody has resolved this issue to date. It seems highly likely (if not absolutely certain) that this is a BUG Stenberg have introduced in later versions of SX.

Surprise Factor: 0

Steinberg have been writing and releasing BUG-ridden software for nigh on twenty years now. I've been paying them money for it for about that time...

e.g. in SL2, a) the inserts were POST FADER! It took them two stabs at this problem to fix it! b) There is no meter activity shown for mono channels (track window or mixer) if the track is using a right-side channel

This still has not been addressed.

I'll keep investigating, but my best suggestion given the evidence I've seen so far that I can come up with is hassle Steinberg to fix their broken software.

Royston

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:11 pm

gnargh! I can't get access to certain areas of the Cubase forums because my username/password is no longer accepted

Nor can I re-request my password. I have sent off an email to Steinberg regarding this...

grrr...

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:19 pm

Cubase smells =P

Logic isn't supported for PC anymore, but at least the last version works =P

This was your free pro-against-Logic-zealot comment of the day. To subscribe to our free newsletter, click here.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: symbiote on 2005-01-25 12:20 ]</font>

grenal1 · Post by **grenal1** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:36 pm

Hi
Shame you can't see on Cubase.net all the guys complaining about this problem, and lots are with Creamware, but also some other cards (EMU,etc.)
So just for you to tell me if there is
something wrong in my XP configuration
about audio and MIDI , here are the details :
Panneau de configuration
Sons Voix et Periphs Audio
Sons et Periphs Audio
Onglet Volume :
Aucun periph Audio
Onglet Sons :
Aucun son
Onglet Audio :
Lecture audio
Unité par default : CreamwarePlayRec1
(pas d'autre choix que Creamware)
Enregistrement audio
Unité par default : CreamwarePlayRec1
(pas d'autre choix que Creamware)
Lecture MIDI :
MIDI Creamware 1
(mais j'ai le choix avec Synthé SX table de Sons GSMic)
Voix :
Lecture parole :
Unité par default : CreamwarePlayRec1
(pas d'autre choix que Creamware)
Enregistrement parole :
Unité par default : CreamwarePlayRec1
(pas d'autre choix que Creamware)
Onglet Materiel :
Je selectionne de Creamware Pulsar2
Proprietes
Onglet general : fonctionne correctement
Onglet Proprietes :
Je selectionne periphs audios
Je selectionne Creamware Scope
puis Proprietes :
*utiliser les fonctionnalites audio sur ce periph
Coché: ne pas effectuer de mappage via ce peripherique
(je precise que ça ne change rien au pb MIDI
chez moi, coché ou pas coché)
Je selectionne Peripheriques et Instruments MIDI
Je selectionne Scope MIDI devices
*utiliser les fonctionnalites MIDI de ce periph
Onglet Settings
Wave Setup
Number of devices 2 max channel 2
MIDI Setup 2

Tell me wht's wrong here ..!
Thanks
grenal1

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:34 pm

grenal1 well done!I will only ask they should pay more attention on certain problems,
I know all the guys here really capable,only some times.
cheers

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:04 pm

Can you post an IMAGE of your SFP project here? If not send me a private message (check the private messages button at the top of the window) and I can give u an email address to send the image to (I can post for all to see).

I'm wondering what else exists in your project in terms of audio drivers...

grenal1 · Post by **grenal1** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:37 pm

Hi
Okanta, sorry I don't understand your message ...?
valis, not worth sending you the SFP project, it is really the simplest one :
ASIO source 16 bits
ASIO dest
(Audio coming from Zlink Source Module)
and the needed MIDI source/sequencer modules
That's all !
grenal1

elliot · Post by **elliot** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:50 pm

i have the exact same problem with sl..1.6
im sure its only started recently though.....hmmm interesting

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:12 pm

Ok...well if I recall the correct procedure was to do the following:

Open Cubase (SX/SL).

Go into Device setup and to the VST Multitrack page, select "ASIO Multimedia"

You will be prompted with a test "The audio card configuration appears to have changed..." Say Yes. (The test will run)

When the test is complete you will return to the Device Setup panel. Switch back to ASIO Scope.

Presumably allowing the detection to complete fixes something even though you're changing the driver back to ASIO Scope. I could be misremembering the exact procedure as well, but it was a post somewhere here on PlanetZ approximately within the past year that I am remembering from (someone else had a similar problem). This is really something Steinberg needs to fix...

grenal1 · Post by **grenal1** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:26 am

Hi Valis
What ?!!&é'è"éà'è;&é"-è_'è"é-_!!!!!
I've never done that !
I'll try for sure this evening and let
you know the result ...
Thanks
grenal1

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:15 am

grenal1 wrote:
Shame you can't see on Cubase.net all the guys complaining about this problem, and lots are with Creamware, but also some other cards (EMU,etc.)

Actually, I did find the threads relating to the problem (lots!), but certain areas require you to log in (specifically the .pdf file Christian Dettner indicated in some of the threads), which I can no longer do for some unexplained reason.

I am now rapidly becoming rather pissed off with Steinberg. I sent an email yesterday, that was bounced back (undelivered). I sent an email this morning, to info@steinberg.net, and I get an automated reply saying "we're just going to ignore that email".

The email goes on to say:

"On top of using the technical form, you also have the option of using our online support forums at http://www.steinberg.net/en/ps/support/forums/"

No, I don't have that option because the URL is invalid

It goes on...

"and
our online help facilities at
http://www.steinberg.net/en/ps/support/resources/."

NO, because the bloody URL doesn't exist!! IDIOTS!

...and on and on, nearly every bloody URL in their email does not work.

I've decided to try to contact Arbiter now (the UK arm of Steinberg) to see if they can help.

Royston

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:32 am

Hi Royston. Steinberg recently changed their forum software. The new url is:
http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/index.php

/dave