Scope 7 driver BSOD

[Ambient Source]

My Pc has a BSOD everytime I configure the output of a stanalone audio app to scope's ASIO,
example : any Arturia stanalone apps, Hise, Voltage Modular and Sample Robot 6 cause a BSOD
the driver on the BSOD is Scopexite.sys

This is driving me crazy, I have used driver verifier to search for conflicts and there is 1

scope.JPG (132.38 KiB) Viewed 4594 times

i've disabled it in device manager,and I've tried re-installing scope, but it makes no difference

I think that maybe all these apps try to take control of the Scope driver
any thoughts on how to solve this?


Xite 1D
Windows 10 1909 x64
MB: Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI 64gb Ram

[garyb]

this is NOT a driver issue.

rather, it is about Arturia assuming that you are a dilettante with a standard Windows soundcard. those stand-alone apps are trying to configure the soundcard. Scope hardware is not a soundcard(but it will function as one). it cannot be configured in the host app. there is no ASIO control panel. Windows does not know what happens with the dsps. this is all about people who cannot configure their own audio devices. if the program did not require a response that the Scope hardware cannot and will not provide, and the configuration process was allowed to time out, then the driver would work the way it works for your sequencer. why do you need stand-alone operation?

[Ambient Source]

Yeah Gary, I thought that might be the case, I don't care about the arturia apps but i do care about Sample Robot 6 and Hise, as I need them for my sample library / VST creation, I love scope but It's not letting me do the things ,I need to do
I've just put my xite up for sale.

[garyb]

whatever.

why do they need to be stand-alone?
why can't you use the built-in soundcard for those apps?

well, you should use what you like.

[Ambient Source]

Sample Robot 6 is stand alone... same as Hise,
Built in sound card has bad latency, I use scope as my main audio interface, and I want it to route audio into these apps, I have a nice signal chain setup in scope and feed my hardware synths, my modular system and outboard gear into scope , i'd ideally not want to sell my scope system, but I dont want to buy another audio interface as a work around.

[garyb]

ok.

i would be more angry at the guys who made sample robot for making the driver/app interface that way. it is actually easier for them to just use the streams as they are and allow the XITE to control itself as it should.

have you tried the built-in audio with ASIO drivers like ASIO4all?

of course, if the XITE really isn't useful to you, you should sell it, no question.

[valis]

Hise is open source, so you'll have to deal with the community (or at least convince some talented programmer) for that cause.

Sample Robot is a company, and should be open to hearing feedback from legitimate users. The changes GaryB are suggesting aren't major, and could even be enabled by say holding a modifier key during launch of whatever panel is necessary so that the novices out there aren't befuddled by such complex things as setting up their own gear.

[Bud Weiser]

Sample Robot 6 is stand alone... same as Hise,
Built in sound card has bad latency,...

Install ASIO4ALL v2.14 http://www.asio4all.org/ which I use w/ 256samples/5.8ms latency and the Realtek HD Audio chip on my AsRock Z97 mobo w/ Win7 Pro x64.
To get that value of 256samples, you´ll have to change default setting of "512 samples" to "256 samples" and set "Buffer Offset" to zero (0) in ASIO4ALL- ASIO Control Panel.
Depending on application, latency might be 1ms more,- p.ex. in Studio One Pro 4.x.
I don´t have problems playing VSTis in realtime via USB MIDI controller keyboard w/ these settings,- fast runs, clusters, chords ... everything.

Simply select ASIO4ALL in SampleRobot and Hise audio settings, open ASIO control panel and make the changes, then apply to make it permanent.

... i'd ideally not want to sell my scope system, but I dont want to buy another audio interface as a work around.

You don´t have to,- ASIO4ALL is freeware and you can use it side-by-side w/ SCOPE.



Bud

[dante]

I can confirm same happens here when I try to fire up Arturia JP8 standalone. Same Z390 Aorus WiFiPro Motherboard, Scope XITE-1D and Windows 10 x64.

However, I can run the Arturia Fairlight or Jupiter 8 as a VST inside Reason or Mixbus just fine with those apps using XITE.

And I can run the standalone JP8 using the ZOOM UAC-8 interface.

Its only the standalone Arturia that BSOD's and only when it tries to use Scope XITE. Works fine with the ZOOM.

The UAD2 forum is also awash with complaints that they cant use Apollos as a Windows device eg for streaming youtube etc etc.

Seems like both DSP platforms are unsuitable for use as a standard windows device - eg for anything but DAW / VST / ASIO etc.

[garyb]

the dsps are not part of Windows. they are not calculated by the cpu. the host app cannot control them, and they cannot answer the control app.
the XITE can stream YouTube just fine. YouTube does not try to set the XITE's samplerate and bitdepth, so no problem. it's a super, super, simple situation. it's like asking an app to cook your food.

ASIO4all should work though, if wave drivers are too slow.

[dante]

Perhaps - but that's lack of co-operation between these DSP device makers and Windows protocols/host app makers. There is already communication between host apps and DSP devices so part of that protocol should be the ability for a DSP device to return a code to a native app that says 'I Cant Do That' - and give the host app the opportunity to pop up an error explaining the limitation rather than BSOD. Either that, or the host app should simply 'timeout' rather than BSOD. The same way the Scope app 'timesout' when it cant communicate with DSP6 - it doesn't BSOD.

I don't think the ball is in the court of ASIO app makers - its in the court of DSP device manufacturers (Sonic Core and Universal Audio) to initiate solutions with the host app makers. IHMO Its up to SC and UA to fit in with the rest of the world - not vice versa.

[valis]

Have you noticed how you need to close your DAW before changing certain settings in Scope? Samplerate and ULLi etc... Well, if you attempt to do this from the host app rather than Scope, what do you think would happen to Scope in the background? The cards that DO implement this functionality have little of any onboard functionality BEYOND handling shuffling samples around, and so can safely respond to the host this way. Doing so for Scope is much more complex.

This came up enough back when the lower end (consumer/prosumer) ASIO supporting soundcards started supporting this functionality that sure Creamware/SonicCore was aware of this situation. Can you imagine someone making a change and then closing the 'settings' panel within a second while Scope is still loading everything in the background? This is basically what GaryB is saying, the DSPs are under the control of Scope, and when you make changes to that EVERYTHING gets released & reloaded, as you well know from using Scope. Enabling this functionality in other words requires a lot more than it may seem from a simple forum discussion.

[valis]

I don't have the apps mentioned here, but when I have had issues, using the onboard soundcard (with ASIO4all if necessary) to set the relevant app's settings to the same samplerate/latency as my Scope project, and then changing the driver to Scope's ASIO afterwards, has always sidestepped this issue. The problem in those cases is that the app is trying to load in a state that is not compatible with the current state of Scope.

Now if an app doesn't allow this (what you would think of as a workaround is actually correct, you're ensuring that the app & scope are both set to the same settings), you're only blaming Scope because sub-$1000 soundcards had to cater to users in ways that made things braindead for support reasons. In other words, apps that read current settings from their own internal configuration file, and then attempt to push these settings to a soundcard without their OWN fallback when that fails, are the problem. I've never seen anyone with high end digital mixers that sync via MADI complaining that they can't autoconfigure everything from Steinberg Cubasis LE's setup panel...

[Ambient Source]

As I said earlier , I love Scope and don't really want to sell my Xite, I have all my hardware connected to it and have a reasonably good workflow, but there are stanalone apps that I need to use everyday, and I don't think that the app makers will change the way their apps work just for one user who runs Scope, nor do I think that SC will change the way that scope works within the next few years , Scope is what it is :

i'll try AISO4all but can I run scopes ASIO output through it into Hise or Sample robot?

[Bud Weiser]

I can confirm same happens here when I try to fire up Arturia JP8 standalone. Same Z390 Aorus WiFiPro Motherboard, Scope XITE-1D and Windows 10 x64.
...
Seems like both DSP platforms are unsuitable for use as a standard windows device - eg for anything but DAW / VST / ASIO etc.

It´s an Arturia issue.
Every standalone application requires configuration of audio channels and MIDI devices.
It always worked w/ Native Instruments Kontakt, Massive, FM8, Guitar Rig, Absynth, Battery and Reaktor as also Plogue Alter Ego and Sforzando ... w/ WinXP and Win7.
Never had an issue when SCOPE/XITE was the main audio interface using SCOPE ASIO.
The Windows "standard device" became SCOPE WAVE driver for streaming audio/video ... Youtube and such.
Worked well at least in 32Bit.
Have to check in 64Bit,- didn´t use SCOPE WAVE driver in 64Bit because of issues reported.



Bud

[Bud Weiser]

i'll try AISO4all but can I run scopes ASIO output through it into Hise or Sample robot?

Now you want multiclient drivers ? No ?
You want SCOPE, Hise and/or SampleRobot using the same ASIO driver at the same time ?
SCOPE ASIO was never multi-client ... most ASIO drivers aren´t.

Check out VB-Audio VoiceMeeter https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm

Banana https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/banana.htm and Potato https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/potato.htm
too ...

No guarantee though.



Bud

[dante]

Yes it’s an Arturia issue technically. I’m wondering if SC and Arturia ever had dialog . Probably not. It’s always up to users to kick up a stink at both ends, but the combinations that are minority of users probably won’t get fixed.

My Zoom UAC8 defaults to 44 kHz with NO WAY to change that from its own panel app. It EXPECTS the host application to set it. But Harrison MixBus wouldn’t allow any way to change it. Reason DID allow changing Zoom to 96khz so now it’s permenantly set to 96khz for Harrison to use. But it I didn’t have Reason I’d be screwed for being able to use Harrison @ 96khz.

IIRC - didn’t Cubase allow setting of Scope sample rate on the fly ? I mean, you had to not be recording or playback and it did take some seconds to reload but it worked !

[garyb]

it does not matter if Arturia and SC have had dialog!
the Zoom is a soundcard. Scope hardware is not. period.
Cubase does not insist on setting up the hardware. having the app INSIST on setting up the hardware is for children and dilettantes who cannot read a manual. it's also the easiest path to making a product. it is NOT necessary.

there is no freaking way for Scope to behave as a soundcard(with an ASIO control panel) except to completely redesign the system. that can be done, but it would be exceedingly complicated, expensive, and it would destroy almost all of Scope's functionality. this might not matter to the end user who just wants to play with the computer itself, and is not especially interested in audio techniques or hardware, but is only interested in computer techniques, but the rest of us do not want our Scope hardware to become simply another interface. this also would not matter to those who never pay for anything.

of course, if Arturia(or anyone else with such lazy programming) was interested, it WOULD be a simple matter for THEM to just allow the soundcard setup dialog to time out.

the problem is that Scope was designed to accept ALL of the audio world, while the computer world is simply about standardization of sounds, hardware, people, and the music they make. it is about limiting choices. the computer world doesn't give a fuck about people's individuality, except when it comes to using stock pictures and color schemes.

anyway, there is certainly a work-around, but not if convenience is the prime consideration. in that case, Scope's advantages are probably not advantages.

[dante]

Actually I think the way it worked with Cubase is that you could go to Scope control panel, change the sample rate and Cubase would detect that the sample rate had changed, put up a prompt to that effect then reset itself if the user chose to continue with that sample rate- without having to close and reopen the Cubase session itself.

I don’t think Scope needs to be majorly redesigned at all. But I do think all involved parties should work together to improve things.

IIRC Strienberg invented ASIO so maybe that’s why they handle it best - if so maybe they should should provide more leadership .

[garyb]

i KNOW that a complete redesign which would ruin Scope forever would be required for Scope to behave like a Windows soundcard.

no, parties don't need to necessarily work together. programmers need to stop assuming that every ASIO bell and whistle will be implemented in every interface.

Wavelab had a similar issue, but Steinberg was kind enough to make a patch. it wasn't hard.